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Thread: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

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    Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Kyle Waldrop hit .360 at Bakersfield and was promoted to Pensacola at the same time as Jesse Winker (.317 at Bakersfield). He is hitting .283 at Pensacola, while Winker (now injured) is hitting .208. Why doesn't Waldrop get more recognition? I saw both play earlier this year, and thought Waldrop looked better than Winker. Just curious on my part.

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    Im a great person Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Waldrop is 22, Winker is 20. Winker has played significantly better in the minors than Waldrop, 21 games in AA notwithstanding. Look at Waldrop's 2012 in Dayton and compare it to Winker's 2013 in Dayton. Winker is a superior prospect.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Edd Roush (07-28-2014),OGB (07-28-2014)

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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Winker is the superior prospect. The real question is why Waldrop doesn't get as much respect as Yorman, who's done little.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Waldrop will make great trade bait.
    The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. -- Terrance Mann (Field of Dreams)

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    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

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    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Winker is the superior prospect. The real question is why Waldrop doesn't get as much respect as Yorman, who's done little.
    Waldrop is older, has significantly lesser tools outside of power.

    Waldrop is a left fielder. He has to absolutely mash to be a big leaguer. He's never really done that outside of the California League. That's why he "gets no respect" so to speak.

    Yorman on the flip side has all of the tools. He has a chance to hit for a solid average, he has 20-25 HR power potential, he is a plus runner, he has a big time arm and he can play defense in center field.

    It's five tools vs 1.5 depending on how you feel about the hit tool for Waldrop. So that's really the issue with the thing between those two guys. And Yorman is a year younger too.

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    OGB (07-28-2014)

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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Waldrop is older, has significantly lesser tools outside of power.

    Waldrop is a left fielder. He has to absolutely mash to be a big leaguer. He's never really done that outside of the California League. That's why he "gets no respect" so to speak.

    Yorman on the flip side has all of the tools. He has a chance to hit for a solid average, he has 20-25 HR power potential, he is a plus runner, he has a big time arm and he can play defense in center field.

    It's five tools vs 1.5 depending on how you feel about the hit tool for Waldrop. So that's really the issue with the thing between those two guys. And Yorman is a year younger too.
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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Waldrop has quietly put together a really nice spring. Over 22 ABs, he's slashed .273/.333/.970, displaying that 60 power tool.

    Obviously, small sample size and all, but after last year's production he's beginning to look like a legitimate possibility in LF going forward. If it weren't for Boesch's hot spring, I'd wonder if they'd consider bringing him to Cincinnati this April. Following his progression in Louisville should be interesting.

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    Im a great person Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    I want to be higher on Waldrop but then I go back and look at Heisey's minor league stats and it brings me back to the ground. But I do think he can be at least a solid contributor to the Reds in the next year or so, fingers crossed for more.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I want to be higher on Waldrop but then I go back and look at Heisey's minor league stats and it brings me back to the ground. But I do think he can be at least a solid contributor to the Reds in the next year or so, fingers crossed for more.
    Wow, never made that comp. Very similar progression through the minors, similar draft position, similar size. Frightening, really.

    Chris Heisey with less defensive versatility is not very exciting.

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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    I think Waldrop will be a major leaguer and could do well. As often the question with lefty hitters is whether they will hit lefties as well as righties against MLB pitching.

    Waldrop achieved lots of offensive success last season. At higher levels. So he has a good chance.

    The problem with the Heisey comparison is that Chris eventually became overly aggressive, didn't take walks, and his on base ability really suffered.

    There's no reason to believe Waldrop will follow the same pattern. If he fails, it will be for his own reasons, not necessarily the same problems Heisey has had.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-19-2015 at 04:17 PM.

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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The problem with the Heisey comparison is that Chris eventually became overly aggressive, didn't take walks, and his on base ability really suffered.

    There's no reason to believe Waldrop will follow the same pattern. If he fails, it will be for his own reasons, not necessarily the same problems Heisey has had.
    Certainly agree here. In isolation, no player is predictive of another's trajectory, no matter the similarity in stats. Way too many individual characteristics to factor in.

    But the Heisey comp highlights perhaps the reason for the lack of enthusiasm for Waldrop. While he hasn't been Danny Dorn'd just yet, you get the impression he's not as highly regarded by the front office and prospect junkies. Obviously, the draft position and the limited athleticism (though he was a D1 football recruit at safety) play a big role in projections, but there's typically a pretty good reason when a player's reputation lags behind production.

    It's the flip-side of the five-tool player. You assume the toolsier, more gifted players can adapt and overcome challenges through raw athleticism. With the Waldrops and Heiseys of the world, their challenges seem to further expose their short-comings and often result in overcompensating (e.g. becoming overly aggressive at the plate).

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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    I've probably been Waldrop's biggest fan here for several years, though I don't think he's anywhere near the prospect that Winker is and I wouldn't compare his tools to Yorman's--though I do think there's a good chance he becomes a better ML player than Yorman will become. I really don't see the Heisey comp at all. At 22, Heisey was at Dayton, OPSing .785. At 22 Waldrop put up a .902 between Bakersfield and Pensacola--1 and 2 levels higher. From what I could see, Heisey's major problem at the plate was a very limited hitting zone; his K stats are remarkably consistent throughout his minor league career, about 1 K per 7 AB, and again throughout his ML career, roughly 1 in 5. So if that's a meaningful way to measure his aggressiveness, it doesn't look to me like he became more aggressive at the plate, only that his weakness was exposed, he arrived at his level, what you get is what you get. But Waldrop, at least at the moment, is way ahead of Heisey chronologically. Heisey made his big jump at 24, Waldrop did that at 22. Now we'll see if he can build on it. This year is key and I like the way he has shown in ST.

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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Waldrop came up in Keith Law's 3/13 chat and Keith had nice things to say:

    Beau (NOLA) - What're your thoughts on the Reds' Kyle Waldrop? Any chance he becomes a regular OF? Looks like he can hit.
    Klaw (2:08 PM) - Yes, and yes, he can hit.

    http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat...ider-keith-law

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    BillDoran (03-19-2015)

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    Re: Kyle Waldrop ; no respect?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I've probably been Waldrop's biggest fan here for several years, though I don't think he's anywhere near the prospect that Winker is and I wouldn't compare his tools to Yorman's--though I do think there's a good chance he becomes a better ML player than Yorman will become. I really don't see the Heisey comp at all. At 22, Heisey was at Dayton, OPSing .785. At 22 Waldrop put up a .902 between Bakersfield and Pensacola--1 and 2 levels higher. From what I could see, Heisey's major problem at the plate was a very limited hitting zone; his K stats are remarkably consistent throughout his minor league career, about 1 K per 7 AB, and again throughout his ML career, roughly 1 in 5. So if that's a meaningful way to measure his aggressiveness, it doesn't look to me like he became more aggressive at the plate, only that his weakness was exposed, he arrived at his level, what you get is what you get. But Waldrop, at least at the moment, is way ahead of Heisey chronologically. Heisey made his big jump at 24, Waldrop did that at 22. Now we'll see if he can build on it. This year is key and I like the way he has shown in ST.
    Waldrop is a bit more advanced for his age, as Heisey played college ball. Bakersfield and to a lesser extent Pensacola inflate offensive production.

    The larger point I was trying to make is that the tempered expectations for Waldrop seem to have some validity. Heisey and Waldrop have similar games (and output, look at aggregate minor league numbers), but nobody's suggesting Waldrop will become Heisey (or adopt his faults). It was merely a (very real) reminder to keep enthusiasm in check despite the strong spring and 2014 campaign.

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