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Thread: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

  1. #151
    Grouch ac084c's Avatar
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    To be clear, all PED use is wrong and needs to stop. But we need to deal with each case on an individual basis, and not use a broad brush when dealing with them.
    Yes, and your position puts arbitrary, moving goalposts on the your individual assessment of each case - which in my observation, are most notably tied to team affiliation.
    I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher.
    -Rogers Hornsby

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  4. #152
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by ac084c View Post
    Yes, and your position puts arbitrary, moving goalposts on the your individual assessment of each case - which in my observation, are most notably tied to team affiliation.
    Nothing arbitrary or moveable about my positions. Please cite examples, so I can understand your criticism. Thanks.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

  5. #153
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    And I am much more forgiving about the players who used during the "steroid era," when the rules were unclear, than I am about the players who used once testing started. I'm even in favor of letting some of the former into the HOF. I'm also, in way excusing the former or the players in the 1970's who used greenies, but it's a matter of degree.
    This entire statement is pretty arbitrary. Especially given that Tony LaRussa and Mark McGwire fit the bill, but they are two players who you've been vocally unforgiving of, and not in favor of letting them into the HoF.

    That is the moving goalpost - based solely on their team affiliation.
    I don't like to sound egotistical, but every time I stepped up to the plate with a bat in my hands, I couldn't help but feel sorry for the pitcher.
    -Rogers Hornsby

  6. #154
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by ac084c View Post
    This entire statement is pretty arbitrary. Especially given that Tony LaRussa and Mark McGwire fit the bill, but they are two players who you've been vocally unforgiving of, and not in favor of letting them into the HoF.

    That is the moving goalpost - based solely on their team affiliation.
    I've been on record that if McGwire had put up HOF numbers while clean, like Bond and Clemens, I would forgive him for using later in his career. But most of his numbers came while using, so he doesn't get in. That's the forgiveness that I give players from that era.

    Had McGwire played in the Reds at any point in his career, I would have been less upset with that (still upset, but less upset) than I would if the Reds signed him immediately after he had been convicted of PED use.

    I actually was a LaRussa fan for quite awhile. I was very upset when the Cards got him because I wanted the Reds to get him. But that changed when he started denying any involvement or awareness of PED use under his management, and started making excuses for McGwire after his congressional testimony. I lost all respect for him after that. Also, when it comes to managers and GM's, I'm much less forgiving than to players. Managers and GM's should know better. They are in charge, they have no excuses.

    I think you are confused in thinking that I would completely forgive certain PED users, and never forgive others. I condemn all PED users, including those who used only greenies in the 1970's. However, the type of PED used, the situation in which they were used, and how and when the team acquired them, all affects how I would feel about them being on a team I root for. Some, I wouldn't want on my team at all, some I would be upset over, but would tolerate, and some I wouldn't care much about at all.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans


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