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Thread: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

  1. #76
    Member Beltway's Avatar
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Cruz will get offered a nice deal this offseason. Because he's paid his price with this deal.

    Peralta is a better player than Cruz, no doubt, but that doesn't explain why one got a four year deal at full market value, while the other got a 1 year deal for under market value. Choo had a qualifying offer, and got 7 years, so we know it's not the qualifying offer.
    At "full market value"? You have no idea what "full market value" is. If Peralta hadn't been suspended for PED use, maybe he would have gotten 5/75 instead of 4/50 or whatever it was he got. No one knows.

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  3. #77
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Beltway View Post
    Cruz got a one year deal because there is no shortage of corner outfielders. Peralta got a multi-year deal, not as some sort of reward for cheating, but because there is a shortage of good shortstops, so that's what it took to get him signed. If the Cardinals didn't make that offer, he would have signed somewhere else. All the stuff you're saying about "integrity" is nonsense.
    Again, for the third time, explain Choo getting $7 years, $130 with a qualifying offer, and Cruz getting one year $8M.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beltway View Post
    At "full market value"? You have no idea what "full market value" is. If Peralta hadn't been suspended for PED use, maybe he would have gotten 5/75 instead of 4/50 or whatever it was he got. No one knows.
    Peralta projected to be a 9 WAR player over the next 4 years. That's $59M.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

  4. #78
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Are you describing Choo or Cruz with the first example? Because Choo is very similar to Cruz, with a qualifying offer, and he got 7 years $130M.
    Similar to Cruz? You must be nuts. Choo's OBP was 100 points higher than Cruz's last season. He's also 2 years younger. Choo was probably overpaid based on a career year, but before this season, he was a significantly better player than Cruz.

  5. #79
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Cruz will get offered a nice deal this offseason. Because he's paid his price with this deal.

    Peralta is a better player than Cruz, no doubt, but that doesn't explain why one got a four year deal at full market value, while the other got a 1 year deal for under market value. Choo had a qualifying offer, and got 7 years, so we know it's not the qualifying offer.
    One guy hit the market averaging almost 4 WAR/yr his previous three seasons while playing a premium position. The other hit the market with a QO while averaging roughly 1.3 WAR/yr his previous three seasons while basically being an aging DH.

    You're being disingenuous by equating their market values in an "integrity" narrative.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #80
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Beltway View Post
    Similar to Cruz? You must be nuts. Choo's OBP was 100 points higher than Cruz's last season. He's also 2 years younger. Choo was probably overpaid based on a career year, but before this season, he was a significantly better player than Cruz.
    $122M better? Gimme a break.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

  7. #81
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    One guy hit the market averaging almost 4 WAR/yr his previous three seasons while playing a premium position. The other hit the market with a QO while averaging roughly 1.3 WAR/yr his previous three seasons while basically being an aging DH.

    You're being disingenuous by equating their market values in an "integrity" narrative.
    Compare what Choo, Peralta and Cruz got.

    It's nearly impossible to say with a straight face that Cruz got anywhere near fair market value.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

  8. #82
    Member Beltway's Avatar
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    $122M better? Gimme a break.
    The Rangers are in last place. Do you think it's possible they made some mistakes?

  9. #83
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Are you describing Choo or Cruz with the first example? Because Choo is very similar to Cruz, with a qualifying offer, and he got 7 years $130M.
    Choo isn't an aging DH with midteir offensive skills and PEDs issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Compare what Choo, Peralta and Cruz got.

    It's nearly impossible to say with a straight face that Cruz got anywhere near fair market value.
    Cruz absolutely did.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #84
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Okay, so I'm being insincere about being wrong? I guess that means I'm actually right about what you think I'm wrong about
    That's not logically valid either.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #85
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Choo isn't an aging DH with midteir offensive skills and PEDs issues.
    Choo's a DH who is forced to play the field. Cruz actually is more valuable on defense than Choo these past three seasons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beltway View Post
    The Rangers are in last place. Do you think it's possible they made some mistakes?
    Yeah, they should have kept Cruz and not signed Choo, lol.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini
    “You got the pitching, now what?” - Reds fans

  12. #86
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    Cheery place here today. Everyone is in a great mood.
    Go Gators!

  13. #87
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Choo's a DH who is forced to play the field. Cruz actually is more valuable on defense than Choo these past three seasons.
    Choo is a significantly better offensive player who shouldn't play CF and who could easily be a 5 WAR player next year.

    Cruz is a guy who should not be allowed to play the field and who's upside is 2.5 WAR.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #88
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    When they win we talk about baseball; when they lose we talk about money.

  15. #89
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    In other news, Carlos Contreras has become a real gas can.
    “I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”

  16. #90
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
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    Re: 8.20.14 Reds @ Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    In other news, Carlos Contreras has become a real gas can.
    only way we can the bullpen pyros apart is by their numbers
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

    I miss Raisor

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    Tom Servo (08-20-2014)


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