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Thread: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

  1. #1
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    Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    Wife and I are looking at buying a used Chrysler Town and Country van. We are focusing on a 2011-2013 model. The dealers have set prices that are fairly similar, but there is always the negotiating game (which I detest).

    I have gotten a slew of advice ranging from offering 30% less than asking price and settling for 20% less, to offering 10% less than asking price and feel lucky if you can get it for 5% off. All of them say "Know what the van is worth," and they refer me to either KBB or NADA or Edmunds or some other online site that gives car values. That is where my problem starts ...

    EXAMPLE: A 2011 Town and Country (Touring but not LWB) with 35,000 miles gives the following figures out of KBB:
    -Fair Market Range: $17,675 - $21,500
    -Fair Purchase Price: $19,590 (NADA says this vehicle would retail for $19,225)

    I am finding 95% of the vans are right at the Fair Purchase Price - plus or minus about $800. Every dealer smiles and politely points out this fact when you ask them if they will take less. Are folks really paying that, or are the dealers coming down 5% - 15%?

    However, on that same vehicle, KBB lists the following information:
    -Trade-In Range: $14,615 - $15,533
    -Trade-IN Value: $15,075* (NADA lists the average condition trade-in price as $15,250)
    * Based on "Good Condition". "Fair Condition" is $13,425 for a Trade-In Value.


    Here are my questions:

    1)Based on my findings, what is the "value" of a 2011 Town and Country with 35,000 miles? Is it based on the retail or the trade-in or somewhere in between?

    2) Does the dealer actually getting the van in trade in for $13,500 - $15,000 (his cost), and then asking (and getting) $19,500 when he sells it? Can I estimate the dealer cost fairly accurately with this information?

    3) I have a feeling most of these vans are coming from auction, not through a trade-in. What if dealer got the van at auction and not in a trade-in? How much is his cost differ?

    FINALLY: Let's say the dealer is asking $19,295 for this van (reminding me that he is already asking BELOW Fair Purchase Price of $19,590). How much would you offer, and what would you settle for? My goal is to get out the door (tax/title/everything) for absolutely no more than $18,000 - $18,300.

    The strange thing about the whole deal is that I can drive an hour north or south of Butler/Warren/Hamilton County, and find this SAME vehicle on a dealer lot, with an asking price BELOW $17,500. Very tempted to make the drive.

    Need some help!
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

    “We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn


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  3. #2
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    I always do the best when I pit dealers against each other, usually doing Internet deals. Show the dealer in town the equivalent cars an hour a away at the lower ask and ask what they can do for you. They will either deal or won't deal.
    The key in any negotiation is to have options. If the dealer senses you have a deal somewhere else and you are a threat to walk, then if they want to do get a deal done they will make it happen within reason. In any negotiation be informed and ready to walk if it's not what you want as long as what you want is within reason. It's when you haven't done your homework or don't have the ability to walk that they have you.

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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    Oh and I would absolutely drive an hour away even for a few hundred in savings. Money is money when you are buying a car.

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    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    Do you have a trade in? That's a critical piece of information here.
    The easiest way to handle the situation is to ignore all the stuff in your head about what the dealer's costs are. True, his profit is the diff. between what he paid for the trade in (or at auction), but there is so much you don't know about those prior transactions that it's just easier to have a reasonable idea of what the fair value for the car is and try to work the deal as close to that price as possible. A willingness to walk away from a deal over the difference of a couple hundred bucks is your best friend.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  6. #5
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    I have gotten a slew of advice ranging from offering 30% less than asking price and settling for 20% less, to offering 10% less than asking price and feel lucky if you can get it for 5% off. All of them say "Know what the van is worth," and they refer me to either KBB or NADA or Edmunds or some other online site that gives car values. That is where my problem starts ...
    With the internet and carmax I think the 10% -5% story is possible. The 30%-20% story is just fantasyland these days. That ain't happening.

    Note that I've never sold cars for a living and it's possible I'm mistaken.

    #1 The value of the car is what you'll pay for it and what they'll sell it for. Sorry, but it's that simple.
    #2 That's a reasonable start.
    #3 the van's at auction are coming from someplace. They are trade-ins bought at a more efficient price.
    Finally...if you're goal is to make it out the door with a price of $18,000 and you think taking a little drive will save you money....make the offer of $17,500 and see what they say. Take a drive and check out the vans in wherever county.

    As I've said, I've never sold cars for a living, but salesmen love it when you give them an offer because it lets them know where things stand. If the deal is too far apart, they'll let you walk (and you should always be prepared to walk) but if the deal is close....well, if the deal is close they'll pretty much do everything they can to get you to sign up for today's special offer.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  7. #6
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    I have NO trade in.

    I know the Kelley Blue Book says fair value is $19,590. If he asks $19,250, he can claim he is "below" fair value (by a measly $340). The bottom range of fair value according to KBB is about $17,700. Is the dealer willing come down to the $17,700 (still in fair value range) or will he keep it at $19,250 - about where it is?

    I don't mind the dealer making his money. I just don't want to unwittingly donate $2,000 to his "Vacation to Hawaii Fund" if he would have sold the van to me for $17,250! lol!
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

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  8. #7
    Member medford's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    anyone use or looked at truecar.com?

    I've heard Eddie Fingers and Kristi Lee (Bob & Tom) pimp it lately, so I looked at it a bit, but have not heard anything good or bad about how useful it is.

    truecar. com says a 2012 T&C Touring w/ 57,000 ish miles on it is worth $20k or so, and a great price on that car is anything less than $19,650 (or about a 3% savings).

    Your best bet is to find a 2-4 different cars that your happy with b/w Northern KY and CBus (assuming you can get there, pick up a car and drive it back home with ease), rank them from the one your prefer the most to the one you prefer the least (based upon color, ease of pick up, options, mileage, etc...) then attempt to purchase your favorite of the bunch for the cheapest of the bunch. Use whatever differences in the car that set of their price against the dealer. Hey I'd love to buy this car b/c its red or b/c it has all wheel drive, or a moon roof or whatever, but I'd settle for this car b/c the price is right. Can you sell me this car for that price? And be prepared to walk out the door if the answer is no (and give it a day or so for the dealer to call you back and miraculously find you the savings after talking to his manager).

    With the internet, any good salesman is already going to know what he's competing against in the market. If he's got 6 used T&Cs on his lot, he's going to already know what the other dealerships in an hour drive are selling their used T&Cs for. I can't imagine there are huge price swings in the used markets, I'd imagine a good chunk of the difference is in options and condition of the car. Also, if you are going to finance the car, look at what your financing options are. Your local bank or credit union is probably going to have similar prices, but often times a "newer" used car can be financed thru the manufacturer. Are they offering a rate special that would make their higher price a better option than somebody's lower price? If your paying cash, then that is a mute point.

    I'd also recommend expanding your search beyond just the T&C. I'm sure you have your reasons for preferring that car, but the dealer doesn't have to know them. Look at the Sienna, Odyseey, whatever the Kia version is called, etc... Nothing says you have to purchase that car, but a dealer may be more willing to drop their price to keep you out of their competitor's car, plus it gives you more options to weigh against.

  9. #8
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    Assuming you have a good handle on real fair market value (which fluctuates in KBB by zip code- never buy a Subaru in Portland, OR, for instance), and you are confident in your assessment of the car's condition (a very small few are really "excellent"), and you know the mileage and the vehicle history, then you should be confident in knowing what you want to pay.
    If you think the fair market value in KBB is correct (higher than what he's asking), then you may or may not have much room to work with. I think, given where the dealer is, you'll have a hard time getting out of there with tax/title where you want.



    Are you financing through the dealer? If so, withhold how much you can put down. Since you don't have a trade in to haggle over, telling them you'll put an extra grand in their hands right now (at great pain to your personal finances) may help.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  10. #9
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    True Story: I inquired about a 2011 van that KBB had fair value listed at $19,115. Dealer was asking $18,965. I offered $17,900 (still well within fair value range). He said they (dealer) "owned" the van for $18,389, so his "profit is very slim." He came down to $18,829 - a grand total of $136. Would not budge another cent.

    I find it hard to believe that with the KBB listed trade-in at $14,900, that he had $18,390 in the van.
    “I think I throw the ball as hard as anyone. The ball just doesn't get there as fast.” — Eddie Bane

    “We know we're better than this ... but we can't prove it.” — Tony Gwynn

  11. #10
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    It sounds to me like you don't need any help Mike; knowing what you're willing to pay is the most important thing. If you're off base, you'll learn that, rather than the other way around. Go get 'em!
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  12. #11
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    2 months ago my sister sat down and found every T&C within 75 miles, picked the ones she liked and then emailed the dealers for quotes. One dealer sent her a price that she really liked $1500 under the others. She went and test drove it, everthing checked out, so she bought it. She was happy with the deal.
    Hugs, smiling, and interactive Twitter accounts, don't mean winning baseball. Until this community understands that we are cursed to relive the madness.

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    Kingspoint (09-11-2014)

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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    It's a Used Car. Prices vary.

    ....bought a 2013 Subaru Outback in Portland last Sunday at the best Subaru dealership in the United States.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    2 months ago my sister sat down and found every T&C within 75 miles, picked the ones she liked and then emailed the dealers for quotes. One dealer sent her a price that she really liked $1500 under the others. She went and test drove it, everthing checked out, so she bought it. She was happy with the deal.
    That's exactly how it's done and will get you the best prices for those vehicles. Trying to do anything other than this is a waste of time. You might get a better deal on an individual vehicle by a hundred to three hundred dollars, but to do so not only is a waste of time, but a misunderstanding of the value of your own time.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  16. #14
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    KBB is a guide, not something set in stone, and has very little bearing on the real value of an actual used vehicle. Every used vehicle is different than every other based on how it was taken care of by it's other owners.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  17. #15
    MLB Baseball Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Need Help Making Sense of Used Car Prices

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post

    ....bought a 2013 Subaru Outback in Portland last Sunday at the best Subaru dealership in the United States.
    Hey! Spoiler alert. I don't think that's been announced for this year yet.
    Last edited by Razor Shines; 08-30-2014 at 10:52 PM.
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