The Shift

[Rojo]

Honestly, I think really extreme shifts make more of a mockery of the game then a rule dissallowing them does.

Since the beginning, baseball has been about more than the batter's box: pitcher vs. hitter, hitter vs. fielder, pitcher vs. runner, runner vs. fielder. The game should be more about young guys who can run over fat guys who hit it out of the park.

[Tom Servo]

No problem with how baseball is now, it is pretty fascinating to have witness the peak of offensive production and see the gradual decline back to normal, traditional rates.


FWIW, I really don't like how offensive, passing oriented football has become. I miss the days when 3000 yards passing was the benchmark for quarterbacks, now having around that number puts you in the bottom third of the league. They've really made the quarterback position into the be all, end all, and I feel it takes away from the game as a whole.

[westofyou]

It isn't like the league has not done it before. Lowering the mound springs to mind. adding a DH is another. in comparison, this is a minor move. It's not like they are adding a rover or anything. And I'm not saying the SS cannot cross the line during a play, but limit his positioning to the right side or on the line. that's enough of a shift to still be effective, but give the hitter a decent chance too.

The mound didn't exist until the 1890's, the mound wasn't regulated by the leagues until the 1950's the mound wasn't measured daily until the 1960's.

In all cases the change was not made after a couple of seasons of results.

The SS started as a position player in short OF, the 2nd baseman used to stand almost on top of 2nd base, for decades... again the change was gradual, not because of a change in offense over a couple of seasons.

[Todd Gack]

Eliminate the shift. Lower the mound. Juice the balls. Do something MLB. This year has been incredibly boring, and if it gets much worse you will see a big decline in young people who follow. A few of my friends have already stopped following because of the decline in offense.

I have no interest in watching 1984 style baseball, and I don't think many other young people do either.

Baseball's biggest problem isn't the rules. It's their marketing of the sport. WIth that said, it's still a very popular sport.

[TRF]

The mound didn't exist until the 1890's, the mound wasn't regulated by the leagues until the 1950's the mound wasn't measured daily until the 1960's.

In all cases the change was not made after a couple of seasons of results.

The SS started as a position player in short OF, the 2nd baseman used to stand almost on top of 2nd base, for decades... again the change was gradual, not because of a change in offense over a couple of seasons.

And all this predates the information age. It predates slow motion replay, spray charts, hitter's hot and cold zones. and instant access to video of an AB. Everything you say is correct for the era's you mention. This isn't that.

We know more faster. We know the number of shifts have doubled almost every year the last 5-6 years. We now have pitching specialists designed for 1 out only, and staffs as many as 13-14 guys. The bench is getting smaller. This isn't a slowly developing trend. It's been happening for a decade. It just is not one thing, it's several things. At first it was in response to juiced up offensive numbers (see what i did there? I kill me.) But it remains effective, even more so now that SLG is declining. maybe the sport will adapt. Maybe.

I think at some point hitters voices will be loud enough that this change takes place.

[malcontent]

no, but it does have an axis. Homeplate, Mound, 2B. Saying the SS cannot position himself on the other side of that axis isn't a huge restriction on the game.

I agree. But you're not concerned about Bruce vs. the shift going forward, are you? Because I certainly am.

[westofyou]

And all this predates the information age. It predates slow motion replay, spray charts, hitter's hot and cold zones. and instant access to video of an AB. Everything you say is correct for the era's you mention. This isn't that.

We know more faster. We know the number of shifts have doubled almost every year the last 5-6 years. We now have pitching specialists designed for 1 out only, and staffs as many as 13-14 guys. The bench is getting smaller. This isn't a slowly developing trend. It's been happening for a decade. It just is not one thing, it's several things. At first it was in response to juiced up offensive numbers (see what i did there? I kill me.) But it remains effective, even more so now that SLG is declining. maybe the sport will adapt. Maybe.

I think at some point hitters voices will be loud enough that this change takes place.

Offense is at the same level as 1992, not 1906.

I see a lot of hysteria about something that can be confronted without changing the rule book

[TRF]

Offense is at the same level as 1992, not 1906.

I see a lot of hysteria about something that can be confronted without changing the rule book

Offense is at the same level, but defense has changed dramatically. I see the offensive trend continuing to tumble as shift usage increases. Also, you can't compare the eras like that, and you know it. different parks, different ball, different conditioning. Compare now to the past 60 years, then you have something.

Like i said, maybe the players will adapt. I wonder how much shifting goes on in the minor leagues.

[TRF]

double post

[Magdal]

To suggest that the shift be regulated or removed is a nutty notion. That the pitcher has an unfair advantage is not. The game was not invented with the slider, cutter, etc. in mind, but they're here and something needs done to level the game.

Coaches will start teaching their pull-happy kids how to go the other way, but that's not enough. Bring the pitchers off that hill. These 6'6" guys have enough advantage as it is.

[bucksfan2]

TRF you play softball right? You have a guy come up and you can see right off the bat he is a dead pull hitter. It doesn't take much to realize that, but once you do everyone takes a step to their left, or more so in the OF. It didn't take a ton of information, spray charts, hot cold zones, it just took a natural inclination to move.

Plays have been shifting, cheating in one direction or another ever since the dawn of the game. You put a player in a certain position because that is where the odds say that a ball in play is going to be hit. The information has gotten better but what you are asking is to tell a team that they know player X is going to hit it in a certain area a high percentage of the time, but you can't place a player there. There are numerous different formations that occur in the game, outfielders out/in, no doubles, the corners in, double play depth, the entire infield in, the wheel play on a bunt, 3rd baseman half way to home plate, etc. All formations are done for a reason. Now all of a sudden you are going to dictate where a player can play or where a player can not play.

Lets say you can't have the SS on the right side of 2b, could you put the SS in RF and then the RF in a very, very shallow RF? You talk about slowing down a game.

[villain612]

Eliminate the shift. Lower the mound. Juice the balls. Do something MLB. This year has been incredibly boring, and if it gets much worse you will see a big decline in young people who follow. A few of my friends have already stopped following because of the decline in offense.

I have no interest in watching 1984 style baseball, and I don't think many other young people do either.

As a millennial who was born in the 1980's, I apologize on behalf of my generation for this post.

Leave the game alone.

[TRF]

TRF you play softball right? You have a guy come up and you can see right off the bat he is a dead pull hitter. It doesn't take much to realize that, but once you do everyone takes a step to their left, or more so in the OF. It didn't take a ton of information, spray charts, hot cold zones, it just took a natural inclination to move.

Plays have been shifting, cheating in one direction or another ever since the dawn of the game. You put a player in a certain position because that is where the odds say that a ball in play is going to be hit. The information has gotten better but what you are asking is to tell a team that they know player X is going to hit it in a certain area a high percentage of the time, but you can't place a player there. There are numerous different formations that occur in the game, outfielders out/in, no doubles, the corners in, double play depth, the entire infield in, the wheel play on a bunt, 3rd baseman half way to home plate, etc. All formations are done for a reason. Now all of a sudden you are going to dictate where a player can play or where a player can not play.

Lets say you can't have the SS on the right side of 2b, could you put the SS in RF and then the RF in a very, very shallow RF? You talk about slowing down a game.

I do, but I'm slowing down in my old age. I'm LH and in softball that apparently means dead pull hitter. So, I've learned to go the other way so much I rarely pull the ball anymore.

But then, that pitch is coming in at like 14 MPH. I can adjust my feet. I can wait longer, and I have the advantage of hitting to fat drunk guys. a lot.

My thinking is this. How much shifting is done in the minor leagues? is it comparable to MLB? If not, why? If they are not being taught how to beat the shift, then the shift will become more prominent further reducing offense. We'll start seeing it more against RH hitters too.

[Red Raindog]

The NFL is not baseball, the defense on the diamond is fluid, not locked into a grid with a line or motion restrictions. It's apples and hamburgers

I see what you did there ----

[Old school 1983]

As a millennial who was born in the 1980's, I apologize on behalf of my generation for this post.

Leave the game alone.

I second that.