The Shift

[villain612]

I'll say it again, but the guys that typically get the shift put on them are the quality of player that should be driving the ball to the gaps or over the wall to win games not knock a ground ball through a hole.

This.

[Kc61]

As regards the shift. Look at some stats in my 140 game thread today.

Reds are about the worst hitting team in baseball when going the opposite way.

Reds are among the worst hitting teams hitting to the middle of the field.

Reds are one of the better hitting teams, certainly in the NL, pulling the ball.

Reds simply do not have effective hitters, save the injured Votto, when going to the opposite field or even up the middle. They are probably one of the most victimized by shifts. This reflects on personnel, possibly on coaching too.

[powersackers]

As regards the shift. Look at some stats in my 140 game thread today.

Reds are about the worst hitting team in baseball when going the opposite way.

Reds are among the worst hitting teams hitting to the middle of the field.

Reds are one of the better hitting teams, certainly in the NL, pulling the ball.

Reds simply do not have effective hitters, save the injured Votto, when going to the opposite field or even up the middle. They are probably one of the most victimized by shifts. This reflects on personnel, possibly on coaching too.

Mesaroco and Frazier being both our best hitters and dead pull hitters explains this.

[Kc61]

Mesaroco and Frazier being both our best hitters and dead pull hitters explains this.

I wish it were that simple.

Frazier and Mes have 756 at bats between them.

Reds as a team have 4,704 at bats.

The influence of any two players is limited on team statistics.

One factor may be the absence of Votto, who is a world class opposite field hitter. And, of course, Choo last year hit over .400 to CF and LF.

But it's a team problem. They currently lack hitters who use the whole field and do it well.

[powersackers]

I wish it were that simple.

Frazier and Mes have 756 at bats between them.

Reds as a team have 4,704 at bats.

The influence of any two players is limited on team statistics.

The most dominant factor may be the absence of Votto, who is a world class opposite field hitter. And, of course, Choo last year probably had that ability, didn't check his numbers.

But it's a team problem. They lack hitters who use the whole field and do it well.

I think We're saying the same thing. We suck nearly at everything but are good at pulling the ball for those 756 at bats at least.

[Kc61]

I think We're saying the same thing. We suck nearly at everything but are good at pulling the ball for those 756 at bats at least.

Agree.

In terms of this thread, it suggests that the Reds without Votto completely lack the ability to counter the shift. They have a few hitters who can succeed hitting into the shift, pulling the ball. Mesoraco is a dead pull hitter who hits homers and drives the ball successfully to LF -- even against a shift.

But without Votto they seemingly have nobody who can hit the opposite way to defeat the shift.

PS - Frazier actually has hit well to all fields this year. So there's that.

[westofyou]

Even at a time when the defensive shift is all the rage in MLB, the Astros shift like it's nobody's business (a Major League-leading 1,204 shifts through Sunday, with the next-closest club, the Yankees, ringing in at 687).

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article...ucture#!bQgJ2M

[Rojo]

But it's a team problem. They currently lack hitters who use the whole field and do it well.

I don't disagree but I'm left wondering about who specifically is getting the shift-shaft. I don't imagine the shift effects righties that much. And Frazier and Mes have hit. Votto uses the whole field. Maybe Hamilton, but hard to say because he's an usual player. So does it just come down to Bruce?

[Kc61]

I don't disagree but I'm left wondering about who specifically is getting the shift-shaft. I don't imagine the shift effects righties that much. And Frazier and Mes have hit. Votto uses the whole field. Maybe Hamilton, but hard to say because he's an usual player. So does it just come down to Bruce?

I couldn't tell you who draws the shift most, or who is most impacted by it.

In terms of opposite field hitting, some of the numbers are truly low, beyond belief.

In OPS terms, Votto 1.116 to the opposite field, Frazier .851, Hamilton .639, Bruce .582, Phillips .482, Heisey .440, Cozart .398, Mes .352, Ludwick .289.

Of course, someone like Mes doesn't hit oppo very often and overcomes it with great pull hitting. So you have to look in depth at each guy.

[Rojo]

I couldn't tell you who draws the shift most, or who is most impacted by it.

In terms of opposite field hitting, some of the numbers are truly low, beyond belief.

Ok, I guess we're talking about two different things. Not using the whole field is just bad hitting, shift or no. My guess is that Bruce is probably the only hitter that's really been shift-impacted to a large degree. The others? They're just pull-happy righties who don't quite get that they're not Hank Aaron.

[malcontent]

So does it just come down to Bruce?

I think so, and I don't see Bruce bouncing back to anywhere close to his usual numbers with the shift on. I suspect that part of that is mental, but it's still real. I guess we can thank Jocketty and Buckley for their inability to acquire quality LH bats (excluding Winker).

I saw where David Ortiz has had 28 hits taken away by the shift so far this year. That's just insane. And AFAIK, Ortiz isn't strictly a pull hitter. It's an inherent flaw in the game and it should be regulated, IMO. I certainly don't want to see a world where every LHH tries to imitate Votto, fouling off pitch after pitch after pitch into the 3B seats.

[BCubb2003]

Wasn't the shift invented for Ted Williams? And then for other elite hitters that you were relieved if they got a single instead of something more. Now it's part of a manager's many match-up buttons to push. I don't favor banning it, though. Baseball is a game of adjustments. It's like the hitters are saying, "But I don't want to adjust."

[*BaseClogger*]

I think so, and I don't see Bruce bouncing back to anywhere close to his usual numbers with the shift on. I suspect that part of that is mental, but it's still real. I guess we can thank Jocketty and Buckley for their inability to acquire quality LH bats.

I saw where David Ortiz has had 28 hits taken away by the shift so far this year. That's just insane. And AFAIK, Ortiz isn't strictly a pull hitter. It's an inherent flaw in the game and it should be regulated, IMO. I certainly don't want to see a world where every LHH tries to imitate Votto, fouling off pitch after pitch after pitch into the 3B seats.

If you are a LHH and you can hit 30 bombs nobody is gonna care how many hits get taken away from you by the shift. You'll still have the chance to watch those guys mash. It's the fringy, 20 home run guys who are gonna get cast aside in favor of more athletic hitters who can use the whole field. Who doesn't prefer watching that?

[mdccclxix]

Did the Cards and Pirates do the most shifting on Bruce this year? Milwaukee wasn't doing it much yesterday and gave up hits through the right side that didn't often go through this year.

Another question: are teams still shifting with a man on first base? It didn't appear so yesterday with the Reds on first base to begin each inning practically.

Perhaps a key for next year would be a Votto-Bruce back to back lineup so someone is always on base in front of Jay.

[NeilHamburger]

You know if Bruce would spend the offseason just learning how to bunt to the third base side the shift would go away. He wouldn't even need to bunt well. Anything hard enough so that the catcher couldn't get it would be a hit.

And I'm not saying Bruce should be a singles or regular bunter. I'm saying if you just do it a few times teams won't be able to shift anymore.