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Thread: Would you do a Joey Votto for Ed Encarnacion trade w/additions. Yes or No?

  1. #226
    Member Z-Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Would you do a Joey Votto for Ed Encarnacion trade w/additions. Yes or No?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    No. Even if you have a Minor League system like the Cardinals from the 30s and 40s without FA in the picture you cannot sustain a team or expect to just replace players every 5-6 years. This is not A college football program that can replinish itself with new recruits. Some players are worth the risk. In your world the Reds lose Bench after 1973. Rose after 1969. Foster after 1977. Concepcion after 1975. No LTC for anyone?
    I mean, yeah. How many of the recent mega contracts have worked out (100 million+)? I don't know, and I might look into it later, but I'm guessing around a 75% failure rate. The current MLB setup, basically gives you guys until they are 30ish. I'd bail after that. This isn't the 70's anymore. The Reds today couldn't afford the Big Red Machine.
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?

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  3. #227
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    Re: Would you do a Joey Votto for Ed Encarnacion trade w/additions. Yes or No?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Fly View Post
    I mean, yeah. How many of the recent mega contracts have worked out (100 million+)? I don't know, and I might look into it later, but I'm guessing around a 75% failure rate. The current MLB setup, basically gives you guys until they are 30ish. I'd bail after that. This isn't the 70's anymore. The Reds today couldn't afford the Big Red Machine.
    They would be able to afford or have to at least 2 out of the 3 in prime players. Rose. Bench. Morgan. I would not expect all of them. I know success rate is low but I would have to look at who is the cornerstone. It was only Votto. It was pretty easy to do him. Just pick one on each team. Even Kershaw is worth it despite his recent back issues. But if you had both I would go Votto even before any of their respective injuries. You trade the other for as many prospects as possible.

  4. #228
    Overton Window Breaker WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: Would you do a Joey Votto for Ed Encarnacion trade w/additions. Yes or No?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Fly View Post
    I mean, yeah. How many of the recent mega contracts have worked out (100 million+)? I don't know, and I might look into it later, but I'm guessing around a 75% failure rate. The current MLB setup, basically gives you guys until they are 30ish. I'd bail after that. This isn't the 70's anymore. The Reds today couldn't afford the Big Red Machine.
    Remember my adage that I've been saying for years: never pay a player in his thirties for the production he gave you in his twenties.

    In my mind, the structure of these big contracts is all wrong. They ought to be front loaded instead of being spread out more or less equally.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov

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  6. #229
    Member Z-Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Would you do a Joey Votto for Ed Encarnacion trade w/additions. Yes or No?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    They would be able to afford or have to at least 2 out of the 3 in prime players. Rose. Bench. Morgan. I would not expect all of them. I know success rate is low but I would have to look at who is the cornerstone. It was only Votto. It was pretty easy to do him. Just pick one on each team. Even Kershaw is worth it despite his recent back issues. But if you had both I would go Votto even before any of their respective injuries. You trade the other for as many prospects as possible.
    Couldn't you have said the same thing about, the Micheal Jordan of Baseball, Ken Griffey Jr? I like Griffey, and I don't blame him for anything. Things happen though. Especially, as players age.
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?

  7. #230
    Moderator RedsfaninMT's Avatar
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    Re: Would you do a Joey Votto for Ed Encarnacion trade w/additions. Yes or No?

    I argued at the time of the contract that $25 million per year wouldn't be so much in a few years. While Votto's contract has him slotted at 12th right now, that will drop lower in the next two years given some of the free agents to be next year. Bryce Harper, Manny Manchado, Charlie Blackmon will likely all get more than that. And I see several others, who with a good 2018, will also jump.

    It was a huge risk by the Reds, one they probably shouldn't take. But the question of this thread was E5 or Votto. I take Votto every time.

  8. #231
    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: Would you do a Joey Votto for Ed Encarnacion trade w/additions. Yes or No?

    If the additions were Brad Zimmer, Yu-Cheng Chang & a good young arm? Yeah, sure.

  9. #232
    GO REDS *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Would you do a Joey Votto for Ed Encarnacion trade w/additions. Yes or No?

    Quote Originally Posted by Z-Fly View Post
    I mean, yeah. How many of the recent mega contracts have worked out (100 million+)? I don't know, and I might look into it later, but I'm guessing around a 75% failure rate. The current MLB setup, basically gives you guys until they are 30ish. I'd bail after that. This isn't the 70's anymore. The Reds today couldn't afford the Big Red Machine.
    Haven't you posted multiple times about the harm payroll disparity has on competitiveness? If you don't think paying players in their 30s is effective then how does payroll disparity matter, since it's mostly players beyond their six years of team control making the large salaries?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I agree with everything here except the part about Trump promising to drain the swamp of rich elites. When did he say that? I think he's putting in rich guys with the idea that they can't be bought. I don't think he ever promised not to put in rich white guys.

  10. #233
    Member Z-Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Would you do a Joey Votto for Ed Encarnacion trade w/additions. Yes or No?

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Haven't you posted multiple times about the harm payroll disparity has on competitiveness? If you don't think paying players in their 30s is effective then how does payroll disparity matter, since it's mostly players beyond their six years of team control making the large salaries?
    Because they are effective on the front end, then you can have dead money on the back end without much repercussion (like the Dodgers).
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?


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