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Thread: Leake and Simon

  1. #1
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    Leake and Simon

    Unsung heroes of this team. Leake w/ 214 IP, Simon 196. Both with WHIP in the 1.2s.

    Tip o' the Reds cap to both.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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  4. #2
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    Re: Leake and Simon

    In one of the drearier 12 month stretches as a Reds fan (probably since the comedown of 1996 or 2000), they've been underrated arms.

  5. #3
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Over the past 18 season only Arroyo, Cueto and Harang had more innings in a year for the Reds than Leake

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    Re: Leake and Simon

    It's understandable, but one can question all the innings heaped on Cueto, Leake, and Simon this year. Particularly since the club fell out of the race.

    I realize the Reds have an obligation to try and win, and to show the fans a good ballgame when they turn out. But it's a lot of innings.

    Kudos to all three for a valiant effort, just hope it doesn't come back to bite them in the future.

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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Leake has progressively worked to that inning total over his young career.....he'll be what he is. I think Simon can do it again next year. Cueto has thrown a lot but he's also not a max thrower either.

    Regardless I just hate giving up too much thought to next year. I just never have noticed an obvious problem result the next year that was caused the year before.

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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    Leake has progressively worked to that inning total over his young career.....he'll be what he is. I think Simon can do it again next year. Cueto has thrown a lot but he's also not a max thrower either.

    Regardless I just hate giving up too much thought to next year. I just never have noticed an obvious problem result the next year that was caused the year before.
    I don't think it can be dismissed so easily. Cueto will have pitched over 240 innings after today. Right now he's second in MLB in innings pitched. Leake is thirteenth in baseball. Neither is a real big, projectable type.

    Simon, obviously, with a huge jump from the past. Less concerned about him, has one more year as a Red probably, who knows if he's even a starter next year. But still, a huge work load for a guy who hasn't started in a few years.

    I don't expect any of them to fall apart in the next five minutes. I am suggesting that the Reds might have handled this differently once the team was out of contention. It's a big workload.

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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I don't think it can be dismissed so easily. Cueto will have pitched over 240 innings after today. Right now he's second in MLB in innings pitched. Leake is thirteenth in baseball. Neither is a real big, projectable type.

    Simon, obviously, with a huge jump from the past. Less concerned about him, has one more year as a Red probably, who knows if he's even a starter next year. But still, a huge work load for a guy who hasn't started in a few years.

    I don't expect any of them to fall apart in the next five minutes. I am suggesting that the Reds might have handled this differently once the team was out of contention. It's a big workload.
    That's fine....but I'm not worrying 1 second about it.

    Simon is a slight concern but 0 on Cueto and Leake

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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Leake at #24 in NL in WHIP. Considering he did that while throwing a lot of innings, he is a legit top 20 starter in the league. That would wake him a #2-3 starter on most teams. Not bad for a guy that was pretty well trashed by many.

  13. #9
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    Re: Leake and Simon

    And in turn, those two owe a massive hat-tip to the fielders behind them, Simon especially.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    And in turn, those two owe a massive hat-tip to the fielders behind them, Simon especially.
    And Cueto

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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    And in turn, those two owe a massive hat-tip to the fielders behind them, Simon especially.
    Simon, definitely. But not so much Leake this year.

    Leake underperformed his peripherals this year. 3.70 ERA: 3.49 xFIP. .298 BABIP. He learned to keep the ball on the ground and improved his K rate.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Leake and Simon

    And in turn, those two owe a massive hat-tip to the fielders behind them, Simon especially.
    The fielder that is Great American Ballpark, not so much.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  20. #13
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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Simon, no matter which stats you look at, established himself as a solid back of the rotation starter. He really shouldn't be thought of as a middle reliever anymore. He can give you 30+ starts, and keep you in the game most of the time. There's a lot of value in that.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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  22. #14
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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Simon, definitely. But not so much Leake this year.

    Leake underperformed his peripherals this year. 3.70 ERA: 3.49 xFIP. .298 BABIP. He learned to keep the ball on the ground and improved his K rate.
    Leake did NOT underperform his peripherals. His ERA was lower than his FIP and as you've been made well aware multiple times, his xFIP is not an appropriate barometer because the assumptions made when normalizing FIP don't hold true for Leake.

    Like the entire national league, his kRate went up this year and his BBrate went down versus last year. Thanks to his defense he however had a higher LOB% than the league which explains why his ERA was lower than his FIP which incidentally was below average for an NL starter.

    He pitched a lot of innings which the Reds needed badly. He deserves a high five for that and it'll cost the Reds cuz he'll get a raise in stead of praise. But he did not underperform his peripherals.
    Last edited by jojo; 09-28-2014 at 07:36 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Leake and Simon

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Leake did NOT underperform his peripherals. His ERA was lower than his FIP and as you've been made well aware multiple times, his xFIP is not an appropriate barometer because the assumptions made when normalizing FIP don't hold true for Leake.

    Like the entire national league, his kRate went up this year and his BBrate went down versus last year. Thanks to his defense he however had a higher LOB% than the league which explains why his ERA was lower than his FIP which incidentally was below average for an NL starter.

    He pitched a lot of innings which the Reds needed badly. He deserves a high five for that and it'll cost the Reds cuz he'll get a raise in stead of praise. But he did not underperform his peripherals.
    Mike Leake also underperformed his SIERRA, which is more accurate than FIP and xFIP and park adjusted. It actually is the stat that Fangraphs says to look at when a pitcher does have a higher HR/FB ratio over many years.

    Also, Leake's K rate went from 5.71 to 6.89. The league's K rate went from 7.52 to 7.72. Nice try, lol.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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