League of Denial: The NFL's Concussion Crisis | FRONTLINE

[improbus]

I remember hearing Jason Taylor tell stories about what the players did to stay on the field and the injuries they endured when there. He once got leg whipped, went home after the game and had trouble sleeping. He found that the only way he could sleep was to stand up on the stairs and lean against the wall. Finally, the pain was too much and he called the doctor. The doctor told him that if he didn't come in soon, he would lose his leg. He found out later that had what was known as compartment syndrome. Taylor also told of playing with a picc line to his heart, lines of players taking multiple giant needles of toradol, and various other ailments and pains.

The human body isn't made to play football, especially at the sizes and speeds of college and the NFL. The lengths they go to in order to get on and then stay on the field is harrowing and something that very few other people would be willing to endure. What is the tipping point on the amount of suffering the fans can live with? We will see.

[Joseph]

I'm not comparing apples and oranges, you're jumping between two different topics. The post I responded to was specifically about on-field deaths, and I showed clearly the chances of that are trivial. The long term effect is a different issue altogether, unrelated to the point I was making about those other sports. But regarding those long term risks, I already pointed at that on average, football players live longer, healthier lives than the average Joe, because obviously there are benefits to playing football as well. Now, don't take that to mean I'm claiming the long-term trauma risks aren't there, it's just to provide some perspective in all this.

Where's the info that football players live longer, healthier lives than the average person come from? I've not seen such information in the past, I believe I've read the opposite but I can't verify that off the top of my head. Just curious btw, not piling on or anything.

[M2]

Where's the info that football players live longer, healthier lives than the average person come from? I've not seen such information in the past, I believe I've read the opposite but I can't verify that off the top of my head. Just curious btw, not piling on or anything.

I don't know how long they live, but retired NFL players are often a sad sight: they limp around a lot, endure chronic pain and seem to age prematurely.

I suppose he could be referring to the larger set of people who played football at all, though that probably just captures a selection of people who are more likely to be physically active throughout their lives. I'm guessing the same would apply to tennis players, cross country runners, volleyball players and skateboarders too.

[kpresidente]

Guys....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...t-disease.html

And yes, its probably a result of the fact that they're professional athletes. That's the point. You're looking at the risks and ignoring the benefits. If you're so outraged about football players, you should be outraged about the "risks" of having an office job, being a musician, teaching classes, writing software, or any of the thousands of other sedentary lifestyles that people live. But you're not, are you?

Also, as far as how the human body was "designed", we were designed to roam the countryside in nomadic hunting packs. Nothing in the modern world resembles that.

[improbus]

Guys....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...t-disease.html

And yes, its probably a result of the fact that they're professional athletes. That's the point. You're looking at the risks and ignoring the benefits. If you're so outraged about football players, you should be outraged about the "risks" of having an office job, being a musician, teaching classes, writing software, or any of the thousands of other sedentary lifestyles that people live. But you're not, are you?

Also, as far as how the human body was "designed", we were designed to roam the countryside in nomadic hunting packs. Nothing in the modern world resembles that.

I think you are confusing causation and correlation. Yes, football players are great athletes and they are probably more naturally healthy. But, that isn't because of football. That is because of the genetics that that allow them to play football.

I would be interested to see the difference between football and other sports that recruit high level athletes.

[kpresidente]

So I'm "confusing" cause and correlation because you speculate that this is all a genetic effect? Because why should anybody expect a lifestyle that demands you maintain peak physical conditioning have positive impacts on your health, right? C'mon man.

Also, comparing them to other top athletes won't control for lifestyle, since they're going to have similar conditioning habits. Understand, I'm not comparing football to other sports, I'm comparing football to NOT playing sports for a living.

[Kingspoint]

I think the league will become filled with the underprivileged seeing it was a way to quick riches and an escape from tough circumstances, because they will be the only ones willing to take those particular risks.

...kind of like joining the army. (not making fun of the army...I voluntarily served myself...just stating that if it wasn't for the poor, minorities and underpriveleged, we wouldn't have enough people to make up an army...I joined for financial and educational reasons myself).

[Kingspoint]

Maybe. I would guess that the NFL will find a way to find players as long as there is money to be made.

The commissioner's office has virtually guaranteed an 18-game season soon. They have no desire to lessen the physical trauma players absorb. They have committed to adding a group of international teams in search of those international dollars.

The Thursday Night games have already proved to me to cause more injuries for those who participate. I've read many times from Coaches and players that they don't have time to physically recover.

[Kingspoint]

There's no maybe about it. The NFL is here to stay. It's not going anywhere. I recall in my youth they said that boxing would go away due to its violent nature and no such thing has happened.

It had to go internationally to find it's poor and underpriveleged to survive, just like the NFL is doing.

When I grew up in the 60's and 70's kids boxed then as often as they rode skateboards ten years ago. Everybody did it in our neighborhood. But, we were the poorest "white" neighborhood in town. Most of us became construction workers. You ended up with pretty thick skin. Today kids have the smallest amount of disappointment and they go shoot up their school. Football may be the closest thing for teaching these kids to have discipline, to learn from disappointment, and to develop thick skin. Life is a never-ending series of disappointments. If you can't learn to handle them and quit crying about it like a baby, you're never going to be ready for the good moments that come your way (and you'll be a whiny pain-in-the-butt that nobody wants to be around while not being a useful member of your community at the same time).

[Hoosier Red]

It had to go internationally to find it's poor and underpriveleged to survive, just like the NFL is doing.

When I grew up in the 60's and 70's kids boxed then as often as they rode skateboards ten years ago. Everybody did it in our neighborhood. But, we were the poorest "white" neighborhood in town. Most of us became construction workers. You ended up with pretty thick skin. Today kids have the smallest amount of disappointment and they go shoot up their school. Football may be the closest thing for teaching these kids to have discipline, to learn from disappointment, and to develop thick skin. Life is a never-ending series of disappointments. If you can't learn to handle them and quit crying about it like a baby, you're never going to be ready for the good moments that come your way (and you'll be a whiny pain-in-the-butt that nobody wants to be around while not being a useful member of your community at the same time).

The boxing analogy is somewhat limited because while there was certainly a time when it was high on everyone's mind, that was also a time of very limited media, and the top fighters only fighting well watched matches once or twice per year.

That said, among the problems they've had is that once the majority of the talent was coming from a different country, the appetite of the United States media diminished.

[traderumor]

Baseball faded for a time, kids who did play were wearing facemask helmets, some were wearing heart guards, after some reports about deaths and long-term injuries. Parents took their kids to play soccer because that was safer, then "headers can cause head/neck injuries" is exposed, soccer is not thriving in this area anymore, baseball is getting its numbers back. Moral of the story: reports come out, alarmists do what alarmists do, it causes some good changes, the game recovers. I don't think football is going anywhere anytime soon. And I've sat on the other side of the safety fence, but I'm going to let my son who wants to play do so. I'm also letting them get their license, knowing they have a high risk of getting severely injured in an auto accident at some point.

In Ohio, football is thriving in suburbia. Most of the big schools doing well are outerbelt type teams. It seems to be the exact opposite of what M2 is describing. Dumb Midwesterners again, I guess.

Just as an aside, I'm also worried about sleep apnea, diabetes and heart disease in lineman playing football. But I'm also worried about those same things in inactive kids who sit around and do nothing because they are not involved in meaningful physical activity. What about bike riding? Motocross jumping? backyard football? Diving? Wrestling? Gymnastics? Ice Skating? Hockey?

I know this is a jumbled mess of thoughts, but I think my position is that life is dangerous, lets just all get wrapped in bubble wrap and sit around and eat healthy food and walk on a treadmill.

[M2]

It might be an innerbelt vs. outerbelt type of thing. I know in eastern cities there's noticeable differences between suburbs in or close to the urban core and the exurbs. Some of it is money, but some of it is culture too. Very little has changed during the last 30 years in some outer burbs (and in some smaller working class cities). Meanwhile, where I live (effectively a suburb nestled inside the city of Boston) there's very little interest in doing things the way they were done when we were kids. So you do see more and less traditional towns.

Also, New England-New York has a different vibe from the mid-Atlantic which has a different vibe from the south. Eastern PA and western PA are two different worlds, with something like rural Kentucky in the middle of them. My guess is metro Chicago differs from southern Ohio, which has a vastly different vibe from metro Kansas City.

FWIW, I'd have let my son play football if he had any interest, but competitive sports aren't his gig (we bike). My daughter is the jock. I don't subscribe to the protect them from life ethos. That said, I'd rather see my kids get the things sport has to offer - fitness, confidence, resolve, work ethic - from places other than football. The game revolves around jamming you shoulders into other people with maximum force. Ultimately there's no way to keep your head and neck out of the fray.

[Kingspoint]

(CNN)*-- The rough sports he loved may have helped to do Kosta Karageorge in at age 22. He gained attention as a 6'-5", 285-lb. Ohio State football defensive tackle, but he was also a wrestler.

Police believe he shot himself but are still investigating. Near his body, which was found in a Dumpster, was a handgun.

But Karageorge suffered from concussions, his mother said, and they weighed heavily on him in the last text message he sent her from his cell phone.

"I am sorry if I am an embarrassment but these concussions have my head all f***ed up," he wrote early Wednesday. He was last seen alive minutes later, according to a tweet from his personal account.

Karageorge had gone for a walk that night, upset about something,Cleveland.com reported.

When he didn't show for football practice Wednesday morning, he was reported missing.

Police, some on horseback, scoured the area around campus for Karageorge. Students joined in, posting fliers with his photo under windshield wipers and on telephone posts.

Body found while*

Then on Sunday afternoon, a woman and her son scavenging containers came upon his body, Columbus police Sgt. Richard Weiner said. Police identified Karageorge by his tattoos.

The school's athletics department expressed shock and sadness over his death. "Our thoughts and prayers are with the Karageorge family, and those who knew him, during this most difficult time," it said in a statement.

The college athlete was a walkon player, who joined the Buckeye's team this season, Cleveland.com reported. He had wrestled at the school for three years.

Team physician Dr. Jim Borchers said that the team was not able to discuss or comment on Karageorge's medical care.

"First and foremost, our primary concern is for the health, safety and welfare of Kosta. ... We are confident in our medical procedures and policies to return athletes to participation following injury or illness," Borchers said.

After night fell, hundreds of students gathered on campus at a statue of Ohio State University's founder to remember Karageorge. They stood in silence, heads bowed.

CNN's Dana Ford and Joshua Berlinger contributed to this report.

[Kingspoint]

This goes under the heading, "League of Denial", instead of the "Ray Rice" issue...

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

The league-commissioned Mueller Report determined the NFL never saw the video of Ray Rice knocking out his fiancée before it was publicly released on September 8.

Predictably, the "independent" report takes the tone of a wrist slapping. "We found no evidence that anyone at the NFL had or saw the in-elevator video before it was publicly shown," the report said. "We also found no evidence that a woman at the NFL acknowledged receipt of that video in a voicemail message on April 9, 2014." The report did say the league "should have done more with the info it had," and "should have taken additional steps to obtain all available information." All in all, the report doesn't change the tone of the debate, or shed any real light on what happened.

Source: ESPN.com


...yeah....right.

[Kingspoint]

Of course, the NHL has it's own issues with head shots and concussions...

From Rotoworld with Rotoworld comments:

Former NHL defenseman Steve Montador has passed away at the age of 35.

Montador last played in the NHL in 2011-12 when he was a member of the Chicago Blackhawks. He totalled 131 points in 571 games with Calgary, Florida, Anaheim, Boston, Buffalo and Chicago. Our condolences go out to the entire Montador family.

Source:*Renaud Lavoie on Twitter