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Thread: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

  1. #46
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    The more this plays out the fewer games I think he'll actually start.

    He did nothing to earn the job for next season, and there's really no reason to believe he can win a QB competition in camp...so yea
    Then you have his immaturity, and the fact that the Browns will prolly trade him if given the chance, but who will want to trade for him?

    The NFL is very good at accepting off the field distractions and problems if you're a good enough player for the effort. If you're not, well you get ushered out of the league pretty fast. Nobody wants a backup QB circus.

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    GAC (12-30-2014)

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  4. #47
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Yeah, if Manziel starts more than six games in his career, that will be some really dumb decision being made by those in charge, wherever that happens to be.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I think Farmer and Pettine can be successful, but this may be the offseason where Farmer says to Haslem "OK. We did it your way by drafting Manziel. It did not work. Let's do it my way this time" and they unload Manziel and Gordon and start over again. I honestly think it is the best case scenario. No need to waste another season hoping Manziel becomes an NFL QB (spoiler alert: he won't).
    Yes. Yes. And,...Yes.

    That is what I'd pin my hopes on, GAC. (and, you are a very glass-3/4's full kind of guy)
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  6. #49
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Was it OK to judge Brady Quinn after 2 starts?
    Yes, it was. Because a lot judgement is based on what they had to begin with. The potential just wasn't there. But, at least he resembled a Quarterback, unlike Manziel, who doesn't resemble any kind of a football player (accept in a sandlot style of play).
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  7. #50
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Things starting to boil in Cleveland! Haslem with some tough words following today's loss. I totally expect Gordon to be traded or released real soon, and possibly Manziel as well.


    http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/12/...-irresponsible

    Joe Thomas's quote was perhaps the most telling.
    Why is Haslem speaking at all? That's what a G.M. is for or a President, for that matter...not an owner. Haslem is a bigger turd than Manziel or Gordon, and has much bigger personality and emotional issues than either of them. Haslem needs to button his mouth, stop interfering in the football operations and let his hirings do their jobs. Until he does this, it doesn't matter what quality of personnel he hires for General Manager, Head Coaches, Scouting, and what players get drafted. The organization will always be dysfunctional until he butts out of it.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  8. #51
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    The glass is definitely half full with you, sir! I can respect that.
    Thank you. But my optimism going into this season does not put me in denial, because I have mentioned this team has issues. But nobody, who is at least trying to be fair/objective, can't look at this year's team vs last year's, and not say they improved, showed positive direction. That's all I, and many Brown fans, were looking for .... something concrete, some kind of foundation that can be built on.

    I didn't expect this team, this year, looking at all the changes that have been made, to make a run for the play-offs. IMO, that was simply being unrealistic. But I'm not afraid to admit it was quite exciting - and a total surprise IMO - when they were in it for a while. But we're talking about a team that has won a total of 13 games in the previous previous 3 years. To expect that would be one miraculous turn-around (LOL). Even when this team came out of week #12 with a record of 7-4, and, when I looked at how they squeaked by vs some "inferior" opponents, I could see this team, even if it made the post-season, would be an early exit. Irregardless of the injuries, there's still some weaknesses on both sides of the ball that need to be addressed.

    With that said, Justin Gilbert's rookie season is nothing but very disappointing. On top of playing poorly he was suspended for the last game because of partying too hard and missing team meetings. Warning sirens should be deafening on this guy at this point.

    Johnny Manziel looks completely overmatched. This is not just a case of not having enough time to prove himself yet, he looks like a 10 year old trying to play Varsity High School football. That is literally what he looks like when he is running around on the field being chased down by NFL defenders. No need to even get into his off the field antics, which are well documented and have occurred wayyyyy too often.

    Josh Gordon needs to be either traded or cut. That has been well documented.
    All the above is true. I've never argued otherwise. The question is, at least in my mind .... is it irreparable, or can it be addressed/fixed? Gilbert is a rookie. He made some bad mistakes, didn't take it seriously enough. He is very talented, and one of the top CBs in college. But will he get the message? Will he turn it around? He should be given the opportunity to redeem/prove himself, again, being a rookie.

    Gordon needs to be gone.

    Manziel? Don't disagree one bit that he LOOKS over-matched; but he's only played in 1 1/2 games. But can that be put all on Manziel when Hoyer was looking the same since week #11, behind an offensive line that has 3rd/4th stringers playing? We lost an All-pro center and replaced him with a 3rd stringer whose never played that position before.

    Can any finger pointing (blame) be put on this offensive line at all?

    Another disappointment is Terrance West. He has shown flashes of being good, but he has also shown flashes of not taking his job seriously. Has been benched multiple times for being late to team meetings.
    He was late to one team meeting, got nailed by Pettine, and took his medicine well. I like how Pettine has handled this rookie. He's high on both of these rookie RBs (West, Crowell); but he's also been hard on them too when he felt their performance was lacking. You're right - West has shown flashes; but also wanted to pout when his reps were diminished, for what Pettine said was lack of focus, and given to Crowell. But again, Pettine sat him down for a heart-to-heart, and he took it well. He realizes that he has to work hard to earn that starting RB spot over Crowell. Competition is good. I'm not worried about West.

    I'll say it again..... FIX THE OFFENSIVE LINE! (LOL) ..... give, whoever is QB, as well as the RBs, the tools to succeed, and then, if they fail, there can be no excuses.

    I will say this though - and it's no feather in Manziel's cap either - Connor Shaw (whom I like) looked pretty good this past weekend for a kid that had one week of reps to prepare.
    Last edited by GAC; 12-30-2014 at 06:08 AM.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  9. #52
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    That is what I'd pin my hopes on, GAC. (and, you are a very glass-3/4's full kind of guy)
    I just don't believe in pre-judging a player, whether it's Manziel or whoever, until they've had an honest and fair opportunity to prove it either way. And once again - I wasn't in the Manziel camp when they drafted him. But those two games prove nothing IMO, behind a terrible offensive line.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Why is Haslem speaking at all? That's what a G.M. is for or a President, for that matter...not an owner.
    While I agree, as many Brown fans do, when it comes to Haslam's meddling....you're saying owners should never speak out? Disagree. While there are some owners who are more egotistical, and crave being in front of the camera, then others (i.e Jerry Jones), there isn't an owner in any professional sport, including Castellini, that doesn't speak out. Especially when approached by the media and there are things amiss within the organization. What are they suppose to do?.... "Well, uh, I'll let my GM answer that question." Because when it's all said and done.... the buck stops with the owner.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  10. #53
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    I just don't believe in pre-judging a player, whether it's Manziel or whoever, until they've had an honest and fair opportunity to prove it either way. And once again - I wasn't in the Manziel camp when they drafted him. But those two games prove nothing IMO, behind a terrible offensive line.


    I'm not sure what your definition is of pre judging a player. I'm guessing that you think a player has to play on Sundays in order to be judged. Manziel is being judged on his college career, practice and the parties he throws on Friday nights. Very few NFL QBs have a chance to start games. I agree that Manziel had a horrible O-line to work with but I see a lot of other reasons why he's not a starting NFL QB and I see a lot of damage that he can do to your franchise the more they start him

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  12. #54
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'm not sure what your definition is of pre judging a player. I'm guessing that you think a player has to play on Sundays in order to be judged. Manziel is being judged on his college career, practice and the parties he throws on Friday nights. Very few NFL QBs have a chance to start games. I agree that Manziel had a horrible O-line to work with but I see a lot of other reasons why he's not a starting NFL QB and I see a lot of damage that he can do to your franchise the more they start him
    Spot on Sea Ray, as far as the character aspect of it. I agree needs his shot and 2 games is nothing to go by. I hope he gets his priorites in line.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  13. #55
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'm not sure what your definition is of pre judging a player. I'm guessing that you think a player has to play on Sundays in order to be judged.
    He's played a total of six quarters behind very difficult circumstances. You don't agree? Why can't you see, or accept, I simply refuse to judge ANY player on such a small window?

    Manziel is being judged on his college career
    As a QB at Texas A&M he had a pretty solid college career. But even you know- or at least you should - that you don't judge a player's success/failure in the NFL on what they did in college because it's a totally different level. Especially for a QB. Yet you say I should.

    practice and the parties he throws on Friday nights
    How many Brown's practices have you witnessed this year, and where it's reported he had bad practices, looked terrible? Can you give me some details because I've seen scant to be honest, other than in the pre-season where it was reported he was looking sharp. But even then that's not much to judge either way.

    The parties? You judge whether a player is going to fail/succeed on the field because of Friday night parties? I could care less about players partying. It's going on all over the NFL.

    It's absolutely legitimate, and I've done so, going after Manziel for being late to meetings, or even his own confession that he didn't take his rookie season as serious as he should. Now I don't know what that means or infers exactly, and neither do you. He says he gets it. OK. All I've said is "Lets see. Actions speak louder then words". If he doesn't show it next pre-season, or does stupid stuff in the off-season, then the kid gets what he deserves.

    And that's as far as I go in my assessment of Manziel simply because, as of yet, I don't simply know.


    I see a lot of damage that he can do to your franchise the more they start him
    I trust this FO/head coach/coaching staff ... who have already came down pretty good on Manziel and a couple other rookies, and have warned them it will not be tolerated going into next season ... that they won't allow whatever "damage" you say he will inflict to occur. He's a rookie QB for cryin' out loud - not the anti-Christ (LOL).

    If he comes out next year and sucks it up, looks over-matched, the first several weeks then he's history. But he hasn't even won the job yet for 2015.

    But saying someone doesn't LOOK like an NFL QB means very little. Billy Beane LOOKED very much the ballplayer, and we all know how that went. Poor way to assess IMO.
    Last edited by GAC; 12-31-2014 at 08:37 AM.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  14. #56
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    The parties? You judge whether a player is going to fail/succeed on the field because of Friday night parties? I could care less about players partying. It's going on all over the NFL.
    NFL QBs do not party on Friday nights before games, at least NFL QBs who are taking their jobs seriously. Absolutely no way.

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  16. #57
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    NFL QBs do not party on Friday nights before games, at least NFL QBs who are taking their jobs seriously. Absolutely no way.
    You are right.....they party on Sunday nights, after they lead their team to victory!
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  17. #58
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    He's played a total of six quarters behind very difficult circumstances. You don't agree? Why can't you see, or accept, I simply refuse to judge ANY player on such a small window?



    As a QB at Texas A&M he had a pretty solid college career. But even you know- or at least you should - that you don't judge a player's success/failure in the NFL on what they did in college because it's a totally different level. Especially for a QB. Yet you say I should.



    How many Brown's practices have you witnessed this year, and where it's reported he had bad practices, looked terrible? Can you give me some details because I've seen scant to be honest, other than in the pre-season where it was reported he was looking sharp. But even then that's not much to judge either way.

    The parties? You judge whether a player is going to fail/succeed on the field because of Friday night parties? I could care less about players partying. It's going on all over the NFL.

    It's absolutely legitimate, and I've done so, going after Manziel for being late to meetings, or even his own confession that he didn't take his rookie season as serious as he should. Now I don't know what that means or infers exactly, and neither do you. He says he gets it. OK. All I've said is "Lets see. Actions speak louder then words". If he doesn't show it next pre-season, or does stupid stuff in the off-season, then the kid gets what he deserves.

    And that's as far as I go in my assessment of Manziel simply because, as of yet, I don't simply know.




    I trust this FO/head coach/coaching staff ... who have already came down pretty good on Manziel and a couple other rookies, and have warned them it will not be tolerated going into next season ... that they won't allow whatever "damage" you say he will inflict to occur. He's a rookie QB for cryin' out loud - not the anti-Christ (LOL).

    If he comes out next year and sucks it up, looks over-matched, the first several weeks then he's history. But he hasn't even won the job yet for 2015.

    But saying someone doesn't LOOK like an NFL QB means very little. Billy Beane LOOKED very much the ballplayer, and we all know how that went. Poor way to assess IMO.
    I have no idea how he's practicing. That's why it's up to the coaches. I'm glad you trust them 'cause they've got some big decisions on this kid. So along those lines, don't blame those coaches you trust so much if they cut ties with Johnny sooner rather than later. They'd be making the call based on everything I mentioned earlier.

    Mine is a very uneducated guess but that's what us fans do...Manziel's not the answer and I hope the Browns are very patient with him.

  18. #59
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    It might be out there here. But does anybody have a list of the QB's that were selected after Johnny in the draft?
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  19. #60
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    Re: How many games will Johnny Manziel start in his career?

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    It might be out there here. But does anybody have a list of the QB's that were selected after Johnny in the draft?
    Quite a few worth watching:

    Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater, Jimmy Garopollo, Tom Savage, Zach Mettenberger, Logan Thomas, and of course AJ McCarron


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