Cueto. Again.

[_Sir_Charles_]

James Shields is 33. A 4 year deal is signing him until he's 37 for around 20-25 million a year.
Johnny Cueto is 28. A 7 year deal is signing him until he's 35 for around 20-25 million a year.

I know which bet I'd make. Paying a pitcher big bucks into his later 30's is a bad idea nearly 100% of the time.

We dealt away Latos & Simon....now instead of going after a lesser pitcher for similar money per year....go after Cueto. If that means keeping him this season and THEN trying to extend him after the year, fine. If it can't be done, let him walk for the draft pick and use the money to improve the ballclub. But do everything in your power to sign the BETTER pitcher during his BETTER years.

Simply put. Dealing Cueto before this season, after already dealing Latos & Simon, is clearly a punting 2015 move. If that were to happen, you might as well cut bait with nearly every aging player and start over. If you want to do it halfway and trade Cueto and then add a pitcher to replace him...it won't be with a top of the rotation type of guy. It'll be middle to bottom of the rotation. They'll backfill. To think otherwise is kind of naive. If you're playing to win this season, Cueto's the guy. If you don't think we can win this season, you don't just deal Cueto, you rebuild considerably because those young arms we have won't be ready for the big time for several years. I could certainly see some of them reaching the bigs in the next year or two...but they'll have growing pains and will most likely need a couple of years in the bigs to establish themselves. As soon as you deal Cueto, you've moved the window to 2017 or 2018 at least (if the kids all work out...which is far from certain).

[Trajinous]

I'm as much against the "play for next year" treadmill as the next guy -- but, really, they don't have the rotation or roster to compete this year even with Cueto. Even to reach .500, they'll need 30 starts from Cingrani -- who has yet to complete an injury-free season as a major leaguer -- rebound years from Bailey/Votto/Bruce, and someone to step up and not pitch like a turd out of the 5th spot in the rotation.

That's a lot of "must go our way" scenarios for one year.

It's not a lot that needs to go right to make the playoffs this year. Pick ANY team and they need things to work out. I also have complete faith/confidence that Price will continue his magic with the rotation and find the right option for 4th/5th spot. I see it simply as the Reds have more positives that outweigh the negatives. 3/5th of the rotation is reliable and 5/8th of our lineup is above average. We are just going to have to agree to disagree.

[Redsville]

Ok trade out Shields and insert Hamels trade into my plan above.

Do we have the right set of players for the Phillies to like and for us to not take too big of a hit in prospects?

Hamels with 4 more years at 94 million with 6 million buyout or go the 5th year and add another 20-25 million. I would agree we would have to shed more salary than just Cueto and Chapman for this trade. Maybe you get Phillies to pay some for prospect value or send them Leake as one of the players going back. Say Leake, Stephenson, Waldrop, Blandino

Cueto to Redsox for Owens & Butts, Coyle, or Marerro

Chapman and 1 of our pitching prospects for Strasburg

Hamels/Strasburg/Bailey/Descalfini/? for next 2 years at minimum, with Strasburg only one able to walk for next 4+ years.

[ac084c]

Ok trade out Shields and insert Hamels trade into my plan above.

Do we have the right set of players for the Phillies to like and for us to not take too big of a hit in prospects?

Hamels with 4 more years at 94 million with 6 million buyout or go the 5th year and add another 20-25 million. I would agree we would have to shed more salary than just Cueto and Chapman for this trade. Maybe you get Phillies to pay some for prospect value or send them Leake as one of the players going back. Say Leake, Stephenson, Waldrop, Blandino

Cueto to Redsox for Owens & Butts, Coyle, or Marerro

Chapman and 1 of our pitching prospects for Strasburg

Hamels/Strasburg/Bailey/Descalfini/? for next 2 years at minimum, with Strasburg only one able to walk for next 4+ years.

Leatherpants, is that you?

[OGB]

Ok trade out Shields and insert Hamels trade into my plan above.

Do we have the right set of players for the Phillies to like and for us to not take too big of a hit in prospects?

Hamels with 4 more years at 94 million with 6 million buyout or go the 5th year and add another 20-25 million. I would agree we would have to shed more salary than just Cueto and Chapman for this trade. Maybe you get Phillies to pay some for prospect value or send them Leake as one of the players going back. Say Leake, Stephenson, Waldrop, Blandino

Cueto to Redsox for Owens & Butts, Coyle, or Marerro

Chapman and 1 of our pitching prospects for Strasburg

Hamels/Strasburg/Bailey/Descalfini/? for next 2 years at minimum, with Strasburg only one able to walk for next 4+ years.

No offense, but I don't get fans whose brains work like this. In one fell swoop, you traded 2 of our top 3 pitchers, our all star closer, #1 prospect, 2014 #1 draft pick, and probably four more of our top 15 prospects.

In what universe does stuff like this ever even come close to happening?

[Redsville]

No offense taken....I probably got off the rails there a touch, blame it on my dad Leatherpants and my after lunch coma!

[ac084c]

No offense taken....I probably got off the rails there a touch, blame it on my dad Leatherpants and my after lunch coma!

Well you're definitely not Walt if your coma is only induced after lunch. Amirite?

[OGB]

No offense taken....I probably got off the rails there a touch, blame it on my dad Leatherpants and my after lunch coma!

I suppose my take on it is a bit different after finding out (late to the party) that Strasburg is being shopped.

[Pacman Fever]

Only if we can find someone willing to give up their entire farm AND take on Cueto, Votto, and Phillips, contracts and all.......then I say, it's time to unload and make a deal. Otherwise, hold onto Cueto until AS Break, at the very least.

[wheels]

Whatever happens, I hope they make it quick.

I am well aware of the realities of the game and free agency and the price of ice in China, but contract talk sucks the life out of everything.

[PuffyPig]

Its not throwing away a season that really isn't there all that much anyways. Secure the next few years with another piece or two from Cueto and possibly Chapman trades.

We have a much better chance of winning in 2015 with Cueto, than we do in 2016 after trading him for some pieces.

Cueto anchoring the rotation makes all the difference in the world.

[muethibp]

There is an ESPN Insider article up now re Scherzer that talks about elite pitching seasons and how most of them come in years (of age) 25-28 and there is a precipitous drop-off at age 31. It uses this data to conclude that the Scherzer deal is almost certainly not to work out and carries with it the possibility of it really not working out.

Cueto turns 29 in February and will be 30 under his new contract.

We just can't give him a new deal. And, if that's the case, he should be moved for value now.

[kpresidente]

We just can't give him a new deal. And, if that's the case, he should be moved for value now.

If all that you said is true, and I'm not saying it isn't, then why would he have much value to trade with?

[dougdirt]

If all that you said is true, and I'm not saying it isn't, then why would he have much value to trade with?

Because for as smart as teams are, they are just as dumb when it comes to paying guys into their 30's.

[_Sir_Charles_]

We just can't give him a new deal. And, if that's the case, he should be moved for value now.

You may be correct in that we can't give him a new deal. But, I still don't see why he'd have to be moved now. The people who want to see Cueto dealt are almost certainly the same people who don't think we can compete this year. So that's the cause of the difference of opinion. I see us as a serious playoff contender and division winner. But without Cueto...no chance. Regardless of when (if) he gets dealt, he'll command a solid return. GM's know the quality of Cueto.