Poor start for Yorman

[RedlegJake]

I completely agree KC - I think Yorman eventually becomes a top flight ML outfielder but by the time he does he may close to free agency because he is going to be doing a lot of learning and growing at the major league level. How fast he is able to do that is going to be really important to the success of the Reds. Leave him in AAA all year and hope he takes another step forward as he has to be on next year's 25 man.

[treetops]

http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp...opotw&sid=l117

Here's a look at the top offensive performers in each league for the week ending June 28:

International League
Yorman Rodriguez, Louisville
(.444/.464/.704, 7 G, 12-for-27, 1 2B, 2 HR, 12 RBI, 5 R, 1 BB, 4 K)
The Reds' No. 9 prospect was given his first taste of the Majors last September, and in the third month of the season, he played like a guy who wants to get his second call earlier this summer. After taking a .237/.267/.420 line into June, the 22-year-old outfielder has produced a .347/.402/.469 line with three homers (two of which came last week) and 19 RBIs in 26 games this month. Rodriguez, who signed for $2.5 million out of Venezuela back in 2008, hasn't been a big-time hitter for average (career .262 hitter) or power (career high for one season is 13 homers), but after taking a few years to get acclimated, it's looking more and more like he has a chance to reach what once seemed like a high ceiling. At the least, his 65-grade arm, which has got him five outfield assists this season, might help get him a job as fourth or fifth outfielder in the future.

https://twitter.com/ctrent/status/616671414947594240

My stat of the day: #Reds Yorman Rodriguez has just 38 PA against a P younger than him in 2,512 career minor-league PA. That’s 1.5%

[UPRedsFan]

I completely agree KC - I think Yorman eventually becomes a top flight ML outfielder but by the time he does he may close to free agency because he is going to be doing a lot of learning and growing at the major league level. How fast he is able to do that is going to be really important to the success of the Reds. Leave him in AAA all year and hope he takes another step forward as he has to be on next year's 25 man.

I really don't understand the faith many seem to have in Yorman. I get that he's young for AAA. But what have we seen that indicates the possibility of success at the major league level?

He's OPSing in the low 700's at AAA with an onbase barely above .300. Compare that to what Boesch and Dejesus did to AAA pitching.

[Tom Servo]

I really don't understand the faith many seem to have in Yorman. I get that he's young for AAA. But what have we seen that indicates the possibility of success at the major league level?

Tools, factors beyond the numbers.

[dougdirt]

I really don't understand the faith many seem to have in Yorman. I get that he's young for AAA. But what have we seen that indicates the possibility of success at the major league level?

He's OPSing in the low 700's at AAA with an onbase barely above .300. Compare that to what Boesch and Dejesus did to AAA pitching.

So you get that he's young, but then want to compare him to guys who are 28 and 29? That's a bit strange.

Rodriguez isn't young. He's among the youngest players in Triple-A. He's also above-average at the plate in Triple-A. He's also able to play center field. He's one of two players on the farm with double digit home runs. He needs to get back to drawing a few more walks, like he has in the past few seasons. That's what's holding him back right now, and really, I don't think it's going to be a long term thing. He gets the strikezone.

[RiverRat13]

So does Yorman have to be in Cincinnati next year? I'd be a lot more optimistic if he could repeat AAA next year.

[RedlegJake]

So does Yorman have to be in Cincinnati next year? I'd be a lot more optimistic if he could repeat AAA next year.

Yes

[UPRedsFan]

So you get that he's young, but then want to compare him to guys who are 28 and 29? That's a bit strange.

Rodriguez isn't young. He's among the youngest players in Triple-A. He's also above-average at the plate in Triple-A. He's also able to play center field. He's one of two players on the farm with double digit home runs. He needs to get back to drawing a few more walks, like he has in the past few seasons. That's what's holding him back right now, and really, I don't think it's going to be a long term thing. He gets the strikezone.

I'll modify my comment by saying he doesn't appear anywhere near ready. What does a .308 OBA and .736 OPS in AAA translate to in the big leagues? Billy had about the same on base % in 2013 and people are expecting Yorman to push Billy next year? Based on what? His tools?

[REDREAD]

I really don't understand the faith many seem to have in Yorman. I get that he's young for AAA. But what have we seen that indicates the possibility of success at the major league level?

He's OPSing in the low 700's at AAA with an onbase barely above .300. Compare that to what Boesch and Dejesus did to AAA pitching.

He's basically another Wily Mo Pena.
He's going to be forced to big leagues sooner than we'd like (just as his promotions in the minor leagues were aggressive, due to the option clock ticking).
Hopefully, his raw tools translate into something productive. Upside is probably a low OBP, high slugging guy that is above average defensively in the OF corners or adequate in CF.

I understand what you are saying though.. I'm pulling for him, but I doubt he ends up better than Byrd is now (ultimately)
Hopefully a nice complimentary player that can start and frees up money to spend on other parts of the roster..

[REDREAD]

I'll modify my comment by saying he doesn't appear anywhere near ready. What does a .308 OBA and .736 OPS in AAA translate to in the big leagues? Billy had about the same on base % in 2013 and people are expecting Yorman to push Billy next year? Based on what? His tools?

He's not going to push Billy next year, IMO.
He's going to play in the OF corners. Maybe he gets 20 starts all season in CF, but he's not going to push Billy for the starting CF job, IMO.
The Reds just don't have the depth for that, even if both Byrd and Bruce come back next year (which is probably unlikely)
If he plays well, he can easily get 400 ABs as a 4th OF.

[dougdirt]

I'll modify my comment by saying he doesn't appear anywhere near ready. What does a .308 OBA and .736 OPS in AAA translate to in the big leagues? Billy had about the same on base % in 2013 and people are expecting Yorman to push Billy next year? Based on what? His tools?

Well, Yorman can hit the ball over the fence and generally, out of the infield. Billy can't. So that is a rather stark difference.

He got out to a real slow start. Going back to April 29th he's hitting .291/.326/.466 for Louisville. Needs a few more walks mixed in.

And really, the reason people think he pushes Billy next year is because Billy is the worst hitter in the Majors, not because they expect Rodriguez to be an All-Star next season.

[Kc61]

Hamilton was rushed to the big leagues because he has unique speed and because the Reds couldn't swing a trade for a starting outfielder that off-season. They tried for Brett Gardner and then Sizemore, didn't make a deal.

Yorman will be rushed to the big leagues because he's out of options.

In both cases, the best approach is to bring them along slowly. I have no problem with Yorman in the bigs next year if he gets 300 PAs. If he's going to get 600 PAs, it will be a disaster, the league will eat him up.

I've always objected to the overuse of Hamilton. He was rushed and then played almost every day, the league figured him out easily. Had the Reds obtained a good starting or fourth outfielder and used Billy less often, I believe he would be farther along and more effective.

[bucksfan2]

Hamilton was rushed to the big leagues because he has unique speed and because the Reds couldn't swing a trade for a starting outfielder that off-season. They tried for Brett Gardner and then Sizemore, didn't make a deal.

Yorman will be rushed to the big leagues because he's out of options.

In both cases, the best approach is to bring them along slowly. I have no problem with Yorman in the bigs next year if he gets 300 PAs. If he's going to get 600 PAs, it will be a disaster, the league will eat him up.

I've always objected to the overuse of Hamilton. He was rushed and then played almost every day, the league figured him out easily. Had the Reds obtained a good starting or fourth outfielder and used Billy less often, I believe he would be farther along and more effective.

I haven't followed Yorman in the minors all that much. I don't know if the Wily Mo comparison is all that apt. Wily Mo should have been in AA when he was playing with the Reds. Yorman may be rushed, by rushed by a half year, not two years.

[TRF]

Outside one injured month last year, Yorman did more than handle his own at AA. In fact, there were stretches where he was dominating AA. This year, as doug stated, he got off to a slow start, making adjustments. he's improved every month. I know some don't like monthly splits, but they can show a progression if looked at as as a whole. So far he's improved every month with a slight regression this month. Considering he missed a few games because he was called up to the Reds for a few days without making an appearance, he's done ok trying to get back into a groove. He went almost a week with only a handful of AB's. He'll end up with about 60 AB's this month down from the 100+ he got each of the previous 2 months.

He's got 20 HR power now. He can play all 3 OF positions. Historically he can get about 45+ BB's a season. By season's end it won't be a surprise to see his OBP closer to .330, his SLG around .450.

All those things I stated in the above are things Hamilton seems incapable of doing. I want Billy Hamilton at the top of the order with Juan Pierre's hitting skills. He'd steal 150 bases if he did that. But if he can't, he's Wily Taveras. Yorman is more Brett Gardner. And I'll take that.

[REDREAD]

Outside one injured month last year, Yorman did more than handle his own at AA. In fact, there were stretches where he was dominating AA. This year, as doug stated, he got off to a slow start, making adjustments. he's improved every month. I know some don't like monthly splits, but they can show a progression if looked at as as a whole. So far he's improved every month with a slight regression this month. Considering he missed a few games because he was called up to the Reds for a few days without making an appearance, he's done ok trying to get back into a groove. He went almost a week with only a handful of AB's. He'll end up with about 60 AB's this month down from the 100+ he got each of the previous 2 months.

He's got 20 HR power now. He can play all 3 OF positions. Historically he can get about 45+ BB's a season. By season's end it won't be a surprise to see his OBP closer to .330, his SLG around .450.

All those things I stated in the above are things Hamilton seems incapable of doing. I want Billy Hamilton at the top of the order with Juan Pierre's hitting skills. He'd steal 150 bases if he did that. But if he can't, he's Wily Taveras. Yorman is more Brett Gardner. And I'll take that.

I'm not disagreeing with what you say. I just think next year, the OF will be so thin that even if Yorman has an MVP season offensively, Billy H will still be playing.
It's more of a statement on what I think the state of the Reds will be next year, as opposed to something about Billy or Yorman.
Billy H is such a great defender in CF, I think Yorman will get worked in on the corner spots for the majority of his PT, and not really a direct challenge to Billy's playing time.
Now whether Billy H deserves to start or not is an open debate, I'm just saying I think the Reds give him another year.