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Thread: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

  1. #166
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy Jones View Post
    LOL As was said above, that post is junk.

    It's not just about "eeeeeee rrrrrrrrrr aaaaaaaaaaa" it's about him being above league average in base runners allowed, in innings pitched, in the quantity of quality he took to the mound compared to the league average. And yes, so was his "eeeeeeeee rrrrrrrrrrr aaaaaaaaa" I guess Arroyo was just lucky for 8 years. How dare he rely on fielders! What an abomination to the pitching profession!

    "No production"

    "Not dogmatic"
    Yep. Archives are too difficult if one really isn't wanting to actually discuss something. Theyre even too difficult when links are provided apparently.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #167
    Member Tracy Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Yep. Archives are too difficult if one really isn't wanting to actually discuss something. Theyre even too difficult when links are provided apparently.
    No it's not difficult. It's a junk argument.

    "No production"

    "Not dogmatic"

    "Lucky for 8 years"

  4. #168
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy Jones View Post
    No it's not difficult. It's a junk argument.

    "No production"

    "Not dogmatic"

    "Lucky for 8 years"
    There is no meat in your sloppy joes.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #169
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  6. #170
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract


  7. #171
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    The Arroyo extension did not work out well. Arroyo was drastically overpaid for his mediocre production. That money could have been better spent on a better player. At least he didn't get hurt until he joined the Diamondbacks.

    I would also classify the Rolen, Phillips, Marshall, Broxton, Bailey and Hannahan extensions as bad decisions. The jury is still out on the Votto mega-extension.

    People forget the huge amount of money the Reds gave Rolen for his injury-riddled seasons of below-average production. I guess he gets a pass because he arrived at the same time Votto, Cueto, Bruce, Frazier and Bailey replaced Dunn, Griffey and Milton.
    I guess we'll disagree about Arroyo. I see 3 years, 600 IP, not a start missed, and a great start against the Giants in the playoffs.

    No offense, but can you give me an example of a good contract given to a player that is free agent eligible?
    Does one exist?

    Any long term contract carries an injury risk, I will grant you that.
    But at the same time, if you never take a risk, you'll never have a good team.
    And I agree with you that injuries caused some of the contracts not to work out.
    IMO, out of your entire list, Homer was the riskiest one.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  8. #172
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Arroyo will go down in history as completely forgettable.
    Unless a player has a HOF career, isn't he pretty much going to be forgetable?

    Homer might be remembered for his two no hitters. Votto might get into the HOF.. Is there anyone else on the current roster that will be remembered by anyone other than hardcore fans? Probably not.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #173
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    It is best to wait and make a decision until as late as possible so you have the latest, most accurate information available regarding his health and performance.
    Not necessarily. You are assuming that Arroyo (or any player) would sign for the same money at the last minute.
    Not true.
    After 2011, the price may have gone up to 3-4 years. After all, the guy had mono.
    I guess there were some doubters on here that thought Bronson was toast, but I think most people thought Bronson would bounce back.

    The Reds ended up winning the division in 2012 by 9 games, so maybe they win the division without Bronson, but you just never know at the time you have to make the signing. Ironically, Bronson was viewed as the guy that we most least wanted to start in the playoffs, yet he had the best results.

    I guess I don't like the entire WAR argument for determining a FA's worth. That seems to be the crux of your argument. I Can respect that, but I think
    WAR underrates guys like Bronson. Bronson had a FIP of 4.09 in 2012. If he pitched the same number of innings, gave up the same number of runs at the same timing, but had more Ks and got his FIP down to 3.5, would it really have mattered?
    I mean, I get it, tools like FIP are useful in predicting the future, but they are less valuable in hindsight when we have the results of the season.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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