Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 173

Thread: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

  1. #16
    Member improbus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    2,137

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Oldest GM motto: The best deals are the ones that are never made.
    Other GM Mottoes:
    -The worst deals generally come from ownership.
    -If the Angels are sniffing around your aging vet, run away. Run quickly.
    -No matter how washed up he seems, that guy you let go will hit .300 as a Cardinal.
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    36

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I've done nothing but unsparingly rip Walt for months now, so I figured I owed him this thread after checking out how Shin Soo Choo is doing in Texas this season. He's put up a line of .096/.254/.173 for a .427 OPS. Granted, it's only been 63 PA, but he's coming off a .242/.340/.374 season in 2014 in the first year of a contract that pays him big money through 2020. In fact, Choo made 14 million dollars per season in the first two years of this contract, the remaining years will be in excess of $20 million annually.

    Walt flipped an asset in Gregorious that we had no long range plans for (who isn't exactly lighting the world on fire in New York), and spun that into a career year out of Choo, and then let Choo walk before he crashed back down to earth with a vengeance. 2013 didn't work out, but that deal in particular was a home run in nearly every way by Mr. Jocketty. Man the Rangers are going to feel the sting of that Choo deal for a while. Thank the lord that was one of the few long term contracts we stayed well away from, despite some segments of the fan base clamoring for a deal to be made.
    Let me ask you a question: what is your intention in making a stupid thread like this?
    Here is another one created by you. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...hoo-comparison

    You really don't know he was injured last year and is coming off of elbow and ankle surgeries? Or pretend not to know?

    http://www.faketeams.com/2015/3/2/81...k-year-in-2015
    His 2014 season was plagued by injuries; Choo played the entire season with an elbow injury and most of the season with an ankle injury. Choo hurt his ankle on April 21 stepping on first base awkwardly, and at the time of his ankle injury, he was hitting .314/.432/.500 with a 160 wRC+. After the injury, Choo hit just .229/.322/.351 with an 88 wRC+. Some of that drop was regression, but most of it was because of how badly his ankle limited him. Choo also had a huge drop in stolen bases last season because of that ankle.

    Choo said he regretted rushing back from the injury:

    "I made a bad decision," Choo said of coming back from his April 21 sprained ankle within 10 days.

    When Choo suffered the injury, the Rangers were already dealing with a rash of injuries. Choo agreed to bypass the DL at the time to try and keep some semblance of offense in the lineup. The ankle, however, has not gotten significantly better, and Choo’s performance has gotten significantly worse.
    If he had played poorly when healthy, this thread might make sense. But that's not the case, as you can see below.



    As long as he's healthy, he will be fine, so don't worry about him and stop making a meaningless thread like this.

    For more information, http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...mer-Reds/page6

  4. #18
    Chicks dig the wRC+ villain612's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,973

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    noooooo you've set the alarm for junkhead to post
    Quote Originally Posted by fipp View Post
    How old are you? Do you want to be humiliated?

  5. #19
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    48,256

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    http://espn.go.com/blog/jayson-stark...ng-of-all-time

    The Worst Free-Agent Signings of All Time.

    And trust me, that’s a tough list to top. But here is my new, updated, post-Josh-a-palooza top five, with a few honorable mentions thrown in there for your second-guessing consideration:

    Just missed this list: Jason Schmidt, Barry Zito, Denny Neagle,

    Special international incident citation: Kei Igawa.

    Disaster in the making: Shin-Soo Choo.

    Category unto himself: A-Rod.

  6. #20
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    11,789

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    I like Choo and would still love him in a Reds uniform. Choo has a lifetime .381 OBP and had a career year in Cincy the year they had him. The major problem with Choo is he is a complimentary player. You don't build your team around Choo, you add him to a good team. You throw his .381 OBP in the 2 hole and play him out in LF.

    Choo at $20M/year outside of his peak years is a recipe for disaster. Choo made the best of his career year and the Rangers paid for it. Now they are on the hook for $20M/year for a nice player as he ages.

    I have wondered about the timing of the Choo trade and what could have been. The Reds traded for Choo shortly after they gave Ludwick an extension. Choo was a better fit in LF, had the Reds not signed Ludwick could they have held onto Stubbs? And would that have given them more money to make a run at Choo or someone else as that season went along? That would also have saved about 15M in dead money as Ludwick got hurt, got old, and was ineffective for the last two years in Cincy.

  7. #21
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    8,545

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by fipp View Post
    Let me ask you a question: what is your intention in making a stupid thread like this?
    Here is another one created by you. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...hoo-comparison

    You really don't know he was injured last year and is coming off of elbow and ankle surgeries? Or pretend not to know?

    http://www.faketeams.com/2015/3/2/81...k-year-in-2015


    If he had played poorly when healthy, this thread might make sense. But that's not the case, as you can see below.



    As long as he's healthy, he will be fine, so don't worry about him and stop making a meaningless thread like this.

    For more information, http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...mer-Reds/page6
    He's back, baby!

    Let the fun begin!
    "Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton

  8. #22
    Member Will M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    4,522

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    when Walt traded for Choo I think that was the last time I was really excited about any move the Reds made. I have no problems with the Latos & Simon deals & the Iglesias signing was good, but when the Reds got Choo I thought "wow, we could win this thing".
    .

  9. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    279

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
    Not sure I'm going to give Walt too much credit for this one.

    1. No way the Reds were going to out-bid the Rangers or Yankees for Choo. The Yankees actually offered $10 million more over the life of the contract than the Rangers, but no income tax in Texas more than made up for that. Point is: The Reds were not going to compete with the Rangers' offer, even if they wanted to re-sign Choo.
    Agreed. Walt didn't "let Choo walk". He walked on his own.
    Huh? Huh-uh. Oh yeah, uh-huh.

  10. #24
    Member Crumbley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Toledo
    Posts
    1,582

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Wonder if any of Choo's injury struggles come from trying to play center for a year.

  11. #25
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,867

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    noooooo you've set the alarm for junkhead to post
    Too late. We didn't stop it in time.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #26
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,867

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels View Post
    He's back, baby!

    Let the fun begin!
    I hope he wasn't trying to fool us. He did a poor job of doing so.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  13. #27
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    8,545

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I hope he wasn't trying to fool us. He did a poor job of doing so.
    Yeah. His sentence structure is totally unique. It can't really be masked.

    I say let him stick around for a while. He's hilarious.
    "Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton

  14. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    36

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    Too late. We didn't stop it in time.
    Hey, Brutus! Long time no see!

    BTW, do you remember our debate on" ERA+ vs. ERA-"
    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...Cueto!!!/page6

    Do you still think there's no difference in accuracy between ERA+ and ERA-?

  15. #29
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    10,450

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Let's go ahead and get the comparison started for the year:

    Choo:

    Triple-Slash: .096/.254/.173
    wRC+: 30
    WAR: -0.4

    Hamilton:

    Triple-Slash: .216/.284/.324
    wRC+: 70
    WAR: 0.8

    Hamilton has been bad, but Choo has been quite a bit worse, which is saying a lot about his season so far. At least Hamilton plays excellent defense and does not cost $13 million this year with a lot more money owed.

    Attachment 9017
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  16. #30
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    25,254

    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
    Not sure I'm going to give Walt too much credit for this one.

    1. No way the Reds were going to out-bid the Rangers or Yankees for Choo. The Yankees actually offered $10 million more over the life of the contract than the Rangers, but no income tax in Texas more than made up for that. Point is: The Reds were not going to compete with the Rangers' offer, even if they wanted to re-sign Choo.

    2. The plan even when the Reds traded for Choo was to have Billy Hamilton (who was coming off a year in which he set the all-time minor league record for steals with 155) be the leadoff hitter/centerfielder beginning in 2014. Re-signing Choo was never really on the table for the Reds.

    If you want to give Walt credit for not screwing something up, go ahead. But the reality is the Reds were never going to re-sign Choo and they knew it. He was a one-year rental, period.
    If the Reds really wanted to sign Choo, they could have.
    It would've just meant no Bailey contract.. and of course some reprucussions for future years of payroll.
    Over 1/2 the board wanted the Reds to open the bank for Choo, and it was a reasonable argument.
    Choo could've played LF , Billy in CF.. That's what lots of people were proposing. Or Billy could've spent another year in AAA (which might've been better for him)

    I do agree with you that the plan was to just rent Choo for one year. Walt pretty much said that the day after the trade was made.
    Still, it was smart to have that plan.
    Although Cleveland probably did the best in that trade, getting Bauer..
    "One person has a more positive outlook [about Dick Williams], and I would guess that was meant as a joke." RedsTeamGo

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | cumberlandreds | Gallen5862 | JaxRed | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | RedsfaninMT | The Operator