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Thread: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

  1. #91
    Chicks dig the wRC+ villain612's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckie View Post
    Reds need to pay close attention to what the Pirates have been doing. When they sign their own players before they are free agents, they ALWAYS get a hometown discount. Look at McCutchen's contract for an example.
    I bet McCutchen doesn't give a discount on his soon-to-be monster next contract.
    Quote Originally Posted by fipp View Post
    How old are you? Do you want to be humiliated?

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  3. #92
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Who SHOULD he have done it with? Just curious.

    IMO, Homer was the PERFECT target. Latos & Cueto were both coming off injuries. Homer had just finished his 2013 season where we saw him improve in every season for .....

    6 straight years in WHIP
    3 straight years in FIP
    3 straight years in HR/9
    3 straight years in K/9
    7 straight years in SO/K ratio
    6 straight years in K's
    4 straight years in IP
    6 straight years in ERA

    I certainly haven't seen anybody else doing that. He was the perfect target. Unfortunately, the injury bug hit him too.
    Yea, I agree with this.
    It's a bummer Homer got hurt. But it's just part of doing business.
    Kind of like the Marshall deal.
    At the time, it seemed like a good idea.
    Happens to other teams too.
    The Cards gave Jaime Garcia a 4 year contract, with 2 team option years (both have buyouts)
    Not as much $ as Homer, but they took a risk and got burned too.
    This is not to bash the Cards, I'm just saying that just about every club that is trying to win has a contract like this blow up in their face.

    If you don't ever take a risk like signing Homer, eventually the talent base shrinks to the point where it takes many years to recover.
    And I will say a lot of Walt's extensions have worked out well: the first Cueto extension, all the Arroyo extensions, and even Votto has worked out relatively well.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  4. #93
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I'm not in favor of guaranteeing big money to pitchers in their 30's.
    But if the Reds took that stance, Arroyo would not have been extended twice (and many on RZ didn't think Arroyo should've been signed)
    In 2011, Cueto was given a 5 year deal which was pretty decent coin at the time. Now Cueto was not over 30.. that is a good point.

    I mean, if the Reds are conservative, even if just about Arroyo, it could've potentially cost them a playoff appearance or two, just by not having Arroyo. Now maybe Arroyo doesn't qualify as big money, but I guess the point is that sometimes longterm deals do work out.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  5. #94
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Anybody who thought Cueto, Latos, and Leake were all going to get paid after Homer's contract was announced was kidding themselves. And Homer's contract didn't max out anything.

    Flipping one of Bailey/Latos and resigning the other was the right move, letting Leake walk if he expects $13 million plus a season would be the right move, and not signing Johnny Cueto to a $200 million jumbo contract would also be the right move.
    I didn't mean all three of them. In fact earlier in the quote I just named two (I do see how you thought that though). I still say everyone would have been ticked if we had known that there would be very little money for a bullpen, a bench, and at least one but probably two of the three I mentioned.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  6. #95
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    But if the Reds took that stance, Arroyo would not have been extended twice (and many on RZ didn't think Arroyo should've been signed)
    In 2011, Cueto was given a 5 year deal which was pretty decent coin at the time. Now Cueto was not over 30.. that is a good point.

    I mean, if the Reds are conservative, even if just about Arroyo, it could've potentially cost them a playoff appearance or two, just by not having Arroyo. Now maybe Arroyo doesn't qualify as big money, but I guess the point is that sometimes longterm deals do work out.
    The Arroyo extension did not work out well. Arroyo was drastically overpaid for his mediocre production. That money could have been better spent on a better player. At least he didn't get hurt until he joined the Diamondbacks.

    I would also classify the Rolen, Phillips, Marshall, Broxton, Bailey and Hannahan extensions as bad decisions. The jury is still out on the Votto mega-extension.

    People forget the huge amount of money the Reds gave Rolen for his injury-riddled seasons of below-average production. I guess he gets a pass because he arrived at the same time Votto, Cueto, Bruce, Frazier and Bailey replaced Dunn, Griffey and Milton.

  7. #96
    Member SweetLou1990's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Having Arroyo eating 200 innings a year is heck of a lot better than a replacement, say a Marquis. Arroyo never had a top arm, but some nights he had top stuff and junk. Having a guy like that to fill out a rotation ain't all bad. Another case also where Walt walked away at the right time.
    Bring on 2018! #%?*!

  8. #97
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    The Arroyo extension did not work out well. Arroyo was drastically overpaid for his mediocre production. That money could have been better spent on a better player. At least he didn't get hurt until he joined the Diamondbacks.
    By my count Arroyo made just around $70 million total with the Reds for 8 years (with 265 games started and 1,690 innings thrown) and 21.5 total WAR. Seems pretty reasonable.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

  9. #98
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Just an update, I am currently writing a song that channels 80s synth pop + The Cure titled "I Want to Be Humiliated (How Old Am I?)"
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    When it comes to crow, I'd like nothing more than to eat Dick's all season long and into the postseason.

  10. #99
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    The Arroyo extension did not work out well. Arroyo was drastically overpaid for his mediocre production. That money could have been better spent on a better player. At least he didn't get hurt until he joined the Diamondbacks.

    I would also classify the Rolen, Phillips, Marshall, Broxton, Bailey and Hannahan extensions as bad decisions. The jury is still out on the Votto mega-extension.

    People forget the huge amount of money the Reds gave Rolen for his injury-riddled seasons of below-average production. I guess he gets a pass because he arrived at the same time Votto, Cueto, Bruce, Frazier and Bailey replaced Dunn, Griffey and Milton.
    Bronson Arroyo was great for this team. This current staff could totally use a guy like that. Despite all of the impending doom posts from many over the years, he only had one bad year, and that was due to a bad back and mono.

  11. #100
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Bronson Arroyo was great for this team. This current staff could totally use a guy like that. Despite all of the impending doom posts from many over the years, he only had one bad year, and that was due to a bad back and mono.
    Arroyo will go down in history as completely forgettable.
    "This isnt stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #101
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Arroyo will go down in history as completely forgettable.
    Kind of like the last 12 years of the Seattle Mariners existence, eh?
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

  13. #102
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Kind of like the last 12 years of the Seattle Mariners existence, eh?
    You mean the Seattle Felix's?
    "This isnt stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #103
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by fipp View Post
    How old are you? Do you want to be humiliated?

  15. #104
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Arroyo will go down in history as completely forgettable.
    He was very good in Cincinnati. He'll end up in the Reds HOF and won't be forgotten in Cincinnati.

  16. #105
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Choo and that albatross Rangers contract

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Just an update, I am currently writing a song that channels 80s synth pop + The Cure titled "I Want to Be Humiliated (How Old Am I?)"
    Sounds like the title of a Smiths/ Morrissey song.


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