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Thread: Soccer in Cincinnati

  1. #436
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Well, you're in luck -- the reason the concept of "loaning" exists is because soccer teams (globally, not MLS) have nearly limitless ability to sign players, and are constantly engaged in the process of developing young talent through academy systems and the like. Teams generate more players than they need, and frequently a loan is the only way to get them playing time and allow their skills to develop and be evaluated.

    Baseball and football artificially cap how teams acquire players by the imposition of a draft system, which equally (theoretically) apportions talents to the various teams. Your player pipeline, at least of quality-rated players, is capped to preserve competitive balance among teams. You never end up with tons and tons of young talent needing places to play because the draft makes it hard for all those players to end up in the same place.
    So in soccer it's like MLB and signing international players? No draft? I still don't see what's in it for the team receiving the loan. They get the player for now but have to give him back (most likely when he gets good).

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  3. #437
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    There's no loan process in the minors. I just meant the act of having a guy play at AAA to receive playing time and experience. Not a great comp.
    It actually used to be a thing in the minors - usually the low minors - cause every once in a while I'd read in The Sporting News about how some player was loaned to another organization. Can't say I remember it happening recently, though.
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  4. #438
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    So in soccer it's like MLB and signing international players? No draft? I still don't see what's in it for the team receiving the loan. They get the player for now but have to give him back (most likely when he gets good).
    You have to take into consideration relegation, what league someone plays in, what division someone plays in etc. It actually makes a lot of sense to me. You take one of the big clubs in the world, and they will have a first team, reserves, under 18, and an academy. You also have to realize that the educational system is different than what we are used to. A guy may be good enough to play on the first team, but is blocked by someone better under contract. Instead of playing him at a lesser level you could loan him out to a team that could use his services, see how he develops there against better competition, and then take him back at the start of the next season.

    If you are a team hoping to be promoted in a season, it makes all the sense in the world to "borrow" a player from a first division club in order to help your chances.

  5. #439
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    So in soccer it's like MLB and signing international players? No draft? I still don't see what's in it for the team receiving the loan. They get the player for now but have to give him back (most likely when he gets good).
    For most mid/lower ranking teams, their #1 goal is to avoid being relegated (dropped to a lower division). Thus, getting quality players for free is always a good deal, even if it's for a short term.
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  6. #440
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    You have to take into consideration relegation, what league someone plays in, what division someone plays in etc. It actually makes a lot of sense to me. You take one of the big clubs in the world, and they will have a first team, reserves, under 18, and an academy. You also have to realize that the educational system is different than what we are used to. A guy may be good enough to play on the first team, but is blocked by someone better under contract. Instead of playing him at a lesser level you could loan him out to a team that could use his services, see how he develops there against better competition, and then take him back at the start of the next season.

    If you are a team hoping to be promoted in a season, it makes all the sense in the world to "borrow" a player from a first division club in order to help your chances.
    Right. Most times, they get a player they'd have difficulty acquiring on their own, for no real acquisition cost. Sometimes they don't even have to pay the wages. It's temporary, sure, but often beneficial.
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  7. #441
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Allow me to simplify the loan process even further: soccer doesn't operate like other sports because it's global.
    Wait until the year after next year.

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  9. #442
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

  10. #443
    Are we not men? Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    As.a non-Hamilton County resident, I guess I don't really have a say in how they spend their tax dollars. But I will say that if the team is covering 100% of the construction costs and is just asking for infrastructure improvements, I.don't see how that's a bad deal for the county. Good infrastructure does more than just help.the team, it attracts additional business if done right. We had a shot at an MLS team in.Cleveland, when Bart Wolstein already had the approval for an expansion franchise and would build the stadium on his own dime in a spot ideally situated between Cleveland and Akron. It was also going to.have a massive training complex that would also provide facilities for youth soccer because he wanted give back to the community. All he asked for was infrastructure improvements to provide easy access to the stadium from the interstates and the turnpike. Summit County voters rejected a referendum on tax dollars for the infrastructure and Cleveland never got it's team. But years later, the county ended up making said infrastructure improvements. So we don't have a soccer team, a stadium, or a massive training complex, but we do.have easier access to the Hard Rock Rocksino.

    In FC Cincinnati's case, they at least have the option of Newport. I think Paul Brown Stadium is a non-starter. I just don't see MLS signing off on Cincinnati with PBS as a permanent solution. As an out-of-towner, I'd actually prefer Newport over Oakley. If I came to town for the weekend to catch a Reds game on Friday and FC Cincinnati on Saturday, I can book a hotel downtown and not have to drive if FC Cincinnati is just across. But I understand they.have to suit the needs of locals first.
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  11. #444
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Good to see the owners stepping up and actually footing the bill as they should. If Cincinnati can't get it together for the infrastructure, secretly I hope they can't because I think Oakley is just a terrible location, I am guessing Newport will gladly take them up on the offer and continue the infrastructure improvements they are already working on near the ovation area and I am sure will end up being a great spot.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  12. #445
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    As.a non-Hamilton County resident, I guess I don't really have a say in how they spend their tax dollars. But I will say that if the team is covering 100% of the construction costs and is just asking for infrastructure improvements, I.don't see how that's a bad deal for the county. Good infrastructure does more than just help.the team, it attracts additional business if done right. We had a shot at an MLS team in.Cleveland, when Bart Wolstein already had the approval for an expansion franchise and would build the stadium on his own dime in a spot ideally situated between Cleveland and Akron. It was also going to.have a massive training complex that would also provide facilities for youth soccer because he wanted give back to the community. All he asked for was infrastructure improvements to provide easy access to the stadium from the interstates and the turnpike. Summit County voters rejected a referendum on tax dollars for the infrastructure and Cleveland never got it's team. But years later, the county ended up making said infrastructure improvements. So we don't have a soccer team, a stadium, or a massive training complex, but we do.have easier access to the Hard Rock Rocksino.

    In FC Cincinnati's case, they at least have the option of Newport. I think Paul Brown Stadium is a non-starter. I just don't see MLS signing off on Cincinnati with PBS as a permanent solution. As an out-of-towner, I'd actually prefer Newport over Oakley. If I came to town for the weekend to catch a Reds game on Friday and FC Cincinnati on Saturday, I can book a hotel downtown and not have to drive if FC Cincinnati is just across. But I understand they.have to suit the needs of locals first.
    It does seem like a pretty good deal for the county. A bit of a problem I could see with Oakley -and maybe the infrastructure improvements would solve that - is getting to and from the stadium. If it is anywhere near where I think it'll be, it's really going to be a bottleneck on game days. Newport may have the same problem. If you're going to the Levee for an evening it's not too bad to get to but add a soccer match on top of that and I don't know if Newport can handle it. But it would be nice to see the skyline on TV and at the stadium.

    Pretty baller move by ownership to put the onus on the county.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
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  13. #446
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    All or nothing decision tomorrow.

    I don’t see MLS awarding a franchise (over Nashville & Sacramento) if FCC can’t get this deal done in Cincinnati.
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  14. #447
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    My only infrastructure question is since when is parking infrastructure? I get the roads part, though I suspect the quoted price is for a red carpet leading up to their front door rather than merely functional roads. Yet parking? I suspect if you did an existing parking inventory of what's within half a mile of the proposed stadium you'd find plenty of parking. So a reasonable governmental pushback would be no to the parking and we're going to do the surface roads, but at a far a lower price.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  15. #448
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    My only infrastructure question is since when is parking infrastructure? I get the roads part, though I suspect the quoted price is for a red carpet leading up to their front door rather than merely functional roads. Yet parking? I suspect if you did an existing parking inventory of what's within half a mile of the proposed stadium you'd find plenty of parking. So a reasonable governmental pushback would be no to the parking and we're going to do the surface roads, but at a far a lower price.
    FWIW the neighborhood in question (Oakley) desperately wants & needs more non-blacktop parking. And, I would agree with you normally, but in a city that refuses to invest in mass transit, parking is a de facto part of infrastructure.
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  16. #449
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    FWIW the neighborhood in question (Oakley) desperately wants & needs more non-blacktop parking. And, I would agree with you normally, but in a city that refuses to invest in mass transit, parking is a de facto part of infrastructure.
    Fair point. If parking decks would serve a significant non-stadium purpose, then I get it. They also can help pay for themselves. I'm just a little wary as I've run across more projects than I can count that insisted they need preposterous amounts of parking. Mind you, some of that is due to having mass transit.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  17. #450
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Soccer in Cincinnati

    My biggest issue is that the county is trying to impose a $5 tax/fee on drivers licenses to make $4M a year to help fund the Western Hills Viaduct and other road/bridge repairs. FC Cincinnati wants to use $2.8M per year for their "infrastructure". I'd much rather see that $2.8M go towards the Viaduct and other road/bridge repairs.

    Of course, this gets into the question of, would they use that $2.8M per year to go towards that? But, I've just got an issue with subsidizing a billionaire family's business with money set aside for something that the county is looking at adding a fee/tax for. I get that they are putting up $200M of their own money, and that's awesome. But I'd just rather see the $75M go towards infrastructure that's literally falling apart and needs fixing right now. #grumpyoldman


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