You weren't talking about the other teams- you were talking about the Red Sox. They didn't build the stadium, but they still had to buy it. Plus, they have invested tons of money into the place. The real reason they have money to spend is that they are a well run organization and they can fill the park game after game. Sometimes you have to give credit where credit is due.Originally Posted by dougdirt
They've built a winner, for sure - but the market size absolutely comes into play with printing money because it's the market size, not the success of the team, that's making TV deal money and that's what is separating teams like the Reds from spending like plenty of other teams.
Still, they paid for their own stadium, which is money the Reds didn't have to spend. The market size is smaller than you think, with two major NY teams just south of them. The current owners have simply done a very good job.
Bump since year 2 of the Judy Heyward debacle is officially in the books in Chicago.
The good news for Cubs fans is that Heyward upped his offensive production appreciably from his .631 OPS in 2016. All the way to .715 in 481 PAs in 2017.
Unfortunately, he didn't have quite enough trips into the batter's box to qualify for the league leaders. If he did, his .715 would have been just below Dee Gordon at #129 among all MLB qualifiers (.716) and a few points above Brandon Crawford (.709).
His 2017 post-season: 2 for 12 (.500 OPS) in 12 ABs in the NLDS vs. Washington, followed by a .167 OPS in 5 ABs in the NLCS vs. the Dodgers.
(If Reggie was Mr. October and Dave Winfield was Mr. May, I guess that means Heyward is Mr. Mid-December or Mr. Early January?)
In 2 years on the north side, the Cubs have shelled out just shy of $50,000,000 for Heyward. He's due $28 million in 2018, and another $106 million in 2019-2023.
Assuming, of course, he doesn't choose to opt out of his deal after 2018 or 2019 as he is contractually allowed to do.
If you're into WAR, he was worth 2.3 in 2017, up from 1.6 in 2016. The 2.3 is just a little below Scooter Gennett (2.4) and appreciably less than Eugenio Suarez (3.5) and Tucker Barnhart (3.4).
AlaskaReds (10-25-2017),alwaysawarrior (10-25-2017),thatcoolguy_22 (02-21-2018)
But better than both Adam Duvall (1.8) and Scott Schebler (1.2), not that Heyward's worth the money.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Hmmm.
On one hand, Duvall and Schebler got to play half of their games in hitter friendly GAB. But they never got to face the Reds pitching staff, which had an NL worst 5.17 team ERA.
On the other hand, Heyward only got to play a handful of his games in GAB, but logged almost 10% of his 2017 ABs (41 of 432) against Cincinnati pitching. Against the Reds, he had an .847 OPS.
(Reds pitchers were so bad in 2017, they couldn't even get Jason Heyward out!)
So who gets the bigger boost: Heyward batting against Reds pitchers or Duvall & Schebler playing in GAB? If you control for those items, does it widen the gap, shrink the gap, or possibly even flip Duvall above Heyward?
Someone much smarter than I am will have to figure that one out.
AlaskaReds (10-25-2017),alwaysawarrior (10-25-2017),cincyinco (10-25-2017),M2 (10-24-2017),thatcoolguy_22 (10-25-2017),Tom Servo (10-25-2017)
How much of Heyward's WAR is for his supposed "great defense"? I ask because defensive statistics seem to be quite arbitrary and if that increases his WAR, I think that somehow lessens his true WAR, if that makes any sense.
In any case, I'm glad the Cubs signed him -- hope they hit the luxury tax soon.
FWIW his fWAR is less than 1
"Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.
If defensive stats are arbitrary, how did you know it doesn't increase his true WAR?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What exactly is true WAR? Is there a false WAR as well?
I don’t know. You said it.
Hypothetically, I wonder how much this contract would've set the Reds back had they signed him to this deal.
Here’s what the 2017 NL Gold Glovers earned this season:
Greinke: $34 M
Heyward: $28.166 M
Arenado: $11.75 M
Goldschmidt: $8.875 M
Crawford: $8.2 M
LeMahieu: $4.8 M
Ozuna: $3.5 M
Inciarte: $2.7 M
Barnhart: $575,000
2 teams paid a ton of money for a gold glover. One of them also got 200+ IP with a 3.20 era for all that coin.
Another way to look at it is that the Giants and Cubs got very similar offensive production and stellar defense from Heyward and Crawford. The Giants paid $20 million less for it than the Cubs did, and got the stellar defense at arguably the most important defensive position in the field.
Last edited by 15fan; 11-08-2017 at 03:18 PM.
Bump.Gordon Wittenmyer @GDubCub 9m9 minutes ago
Multiple sources indicate Heyward has indeed chosen Cubs over Cards, Nats.
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 1m1 minute ago
Cubs are believed to have gotten heyward for less than $200M. Apparently taking less to be at addison and clark. @GDubCub 1st
On the one hand, hooray the Cubs overpaid and that this makes Cardinals fans all angry and red online. On the other hand, I fear missing out on Price and Heyward could mean the Cardinals go hard after Cueto.
* Attended the 1990 and 2010 Reds Division clinchers *
Go 76ers, Go Steelers and Go Bucks
MR X (02-08-2018)
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