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Thread: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

  1. #16
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by lidspinner View Post
    its never to late.....but my biggest fear has never been his swing or his hand placement.....I agree, his swing just didnt look right these past few years but I am 100% of the opinion that when a player struggles, he looks for the easiest and quickest fix, or the simplest fix.....and in this case, tweaking his hands sounds like the easiest thing to do for multiple reasons......

    but when you go back and watch video, something I do way to much of in the winter...and something my kids probably would tell you that I am obsessed with(watching video to correct things) ...Jay Bruce's swing is the least thing I would be worrying about....I hope it works for him and there is a reason I am not working as a hitting coach...its obvious he/they know way more than I do....but I see a huge issue with Jays pitch recognition from his early years to these past few years....
    dont get me wrong, Jay has always had problems seeing the curve and slider, his problem these past few years has been once he realizes the pitch is a curve/slider, its to late to hold off, he has already committed to swing....in his early years you can see Jay step, load, shift his weight, start to flow his hands through the zone then hold back......that my friends is 100% pitch recognition and its something that can be fixed but he needs to be working on that instead of trying to fix muscle memory, which is very hard to do and takes years to fix.
    I'm certainly no scout, but that has been my take too. When he swings over the top of that slider, missing by 18", it seems that he's almost always swinging at what he thinks is a fastball. Sure, every guy swings and misses on occasion. But not everybody gets fooled as much as Bruce does. Having his swing stay in the zone longer won't help him put the bat in the right spot.

    That said, perhaps his swing issues drove him to start his swing too early, forcing him to commit before he had given himself enough time to read the pitch. Perhaps being quicker to the ball will let hit wait longer and get better reads. I honestly don't know, but I agree that it looks like an issue of recognition and timing more than anything else.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  3. #17
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'm certainly no scout, but that has been my take too. When he swings over the top of that slider, missing by 18", it seems that he's almost always swinging at what he thinks is a fastball. Sure, every guy swings and misses on occasion. But not everybody gets fooled as much as Bruce does. Having his swing stay in the zone longer won't help him put the bat in the right spot.

    That said, perhaps his swing issues drove him to start his swing too early, forcing him to commit before he had given himself enough time to read the pitch. Perhaps being quicker to the ball will let hit wait longer and get better reads. I honestly don't know, but I agree that it looks like an issue of recognition and timing more than anything else.
    I don't know. As a golfer I know simple things, like your alignment being off can cause swing havoc. A split second move with you hips can send you ball into the woods on a regular basis. Often times its the little things that cause major problems.

    I am not doubting what Jay is saying, it seems a little odd that a guy who has been in the league this long, would not have the habit of watching video, or having someone do it for them. I know tweaking your swing in the middle of the season is difficult, but one would assume a two days off surrounded by a bye could give someone time to really work on a swing tweak. Hopefully he comes back and mashes this season and is either traded or comes back on a reasonable option year next season.

  4. #18
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    He'll hit 50.
    Grounders to 2nd? :O) Just kidding. I have high hopes for Jay too.

  5. #19
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    That said, perhaps his swing issues drove him to start his swing too early, forcing him to commit before he had given himself enough time to read the pitch. Perhaps being quicker to the ball will let hit wait longer and get better reads. I honestly don't know, but I agree that it looks like an issue of recognition and timing more than anything else.
    I still think we're underestimating the effect the shift has had on his production. His ground ball, line drive, and fly ball rates have all stayed fairly steady throughout his career, but his BABIP has plummeted. I don't know that he's going to be able to pull out of that.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    I still think we're underestimating the effect the shift has had on his production. His ground ball, line drive, and fly ball rates have all stayed fairly steady throughout his career, but his BABIP has plummeted. I don't know that he's going to be able to pull out of that.
    Supposedly he and Votto have both been working on their bunting this offseason. If he can get it down well enough to make some teams rethink their shift policies, we may see his BABIP increase again. That's probably wishful thinking, but I've been a fan of him trying to bunt down the third baseline the last few years when we've seen more and more dramatic shifts on him.

  7. #21
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    I hope he's right. He's still in his 20s and can hopefully bounce back, since we're apparently stuck with him. But after what I've seen the past two seasons, I'm not too confident.
    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and [the St. Louis Cardinals]."--Benjamin Disraeli

  8. #22
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by androosh View Post
    Supposedly he and Votto have both been working on their bunting this offseason. If he can get it down well enough to make some teams rethink their shift policies, we may see his BABIP increase again. That's probably wishful thinking, but I've been a fan of him trying to bunt down the third baseline the last few years when we've seen more and more dramatic shifts on him.
    I'd love to see Bruce become a decent bunter, if only because it would open up a hole in a spot where he's more likely to do damage. As an added bonus, it would raise his BA. While I love Ted Williams and consider him among the two or three best hitters ever, he was, simply put, wrong about the shift. A well-placed bunt or three would have, IMO, led to more teams playing him honestly, higher BA, more OBP, and more runs.

  9. #23
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by androosh View Post
    Supposedly he and Votto have both been working on their bunting this offseason. If he can get it down well enough to make some teams rethink their shift policies, we may see his BABIP increase again. That's probably wishful thinking, but I've been a fan of him trying to bunt down the third baseline the last few years when we've seen more and more dramatic shifts on him.
    That's what they want them to do. The defense will gladly take a bunt base hit or an opposite field single if it means guys like Bruce aren't hitting with power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

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  11. #24
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Votto should never ever bunt

  12. #25
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    That's what they want them to do. The defense will gladly take a bunt base hit or an opposite field single if it means guys like Bruce aren't hitting with power.
    A base hit is a good thing. Trading the "sure thing" for a chance at more is a fool's errand in baseball.

  13. #26
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Votto should never ever bunt
    If the 3B is playing in the SS hole and the bunt is a nearly free base, yes, he absolutely should.

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  15. #27
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    If the 3B is playing in the SS hole and the bunt is a nearly free base, yes, he absolutely should.
    Not with Votto's spray chart, he shouldn't. He's got more of a chance at an extra-base hit to left field than most of our righty hitters do.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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  17. #28
    Member Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    If the 3B is playing in the SS hole and the bunt is a nearly free base, yes, he absolutely should.
    absolutely. all a guy has to do is push a bunt past the pitcher down the 3B line & its a hit.
    it seems to me that a guy could have a very very high success rate with lots & lots of practice.
    I don't understand why guys like Bruce aren't practicing bunting literally a thousand times a day.
    .

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  19. #29
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    If the 3B is playing in the SS hole and the bunt is a nearly free base, yes, he absolutely should.
    He doesn't need to bunt for free bases.

    Chip is right about this one, opposing teams would love for Votto to take those type of hits.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    Not with Votto's spray chart, he shouldn't. He's got more of a chance at an extra-base hit to left field than most of our righty hitters do.
    Exactamundo.

  20. #30
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce hopes swing tweak leads to more success in 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    He doesn't need to bunt for free bases.

    Chip is right about this one, opposing teams would love for Votto to take those type of hits.
    Is it not the hitter's job to acquire bases?

    Should Votto be successful even two out of three times up to the plate, he's performing at a level no one in the history of the game has.

    A .667/ .667/ .667 line is pretty remarkably awesome, I would think. That'd be a 1.335 OPS, fwiw.
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 03-07-2016 at 12:57 PM.

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