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Thread: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

  1. #61
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Twitter sources are saying Arena is the replacement.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

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  3. #62
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    Twitter sources are saying Arena is the replacement.
    Makes sense. Arena seems like the perfect guy so long as they ONLY keep him through 2018. As I said on a FB thread discussing possibilities, he seems like the younger Jack McKeon. He can come in, improve performance with current team and be gone before everyone realizes the players and everyone in the organization hates him.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Makes sense. Arena seems like the perfect guy so long as they ONLY keep him through 2018. As I said on a FB thread discussing possibilities, he seems like the younger Jack McKeon. He can come in, improve performance with current team and be gone before everyone realizes the players and everyone in the organization hates him.
    Exactly and he can also bring back in a few players like Feilhaber and Rodgers who should have been involved all along.

    I wonder what Chris Wondolowski is going to do with those naked pictures of Jurgen now.

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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Exactly and he can also bring back in a few players like Feilhaber and Rodgers who should have been involved all along.

    I wonder what Chris Wondolowski is going to do with those naked pictures of Jurgen now.
    I've always found it best to not ask questions that I didn't want to know the answers to.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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  7. #65
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Good riddance

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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Makes sense. Arena seems like the perfect guy so long as they ONLY keep him through 2018. As I said on a FB thread discussing possibilities, he seems like the younger Jack McKeon. He can come in, improve performance with current team and be gone before everyone realizes the players and everyone in the organization hates him.
    Trouble is, if he qualifies it'll be tough to launch him.
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    I keep seeing (elsewhere) references to the 2002 WC quarterfinal, but what I keep remembering is the giant egg the team laid in the 2006 WC when Arena utterly abandoned anything like an attempt to move the ball or play attacking football. His MLS teams play with a lot more swagger, but that's because he's been given outstanding (for the league) talent. He already wasn't the guy who could elevate the USMNT's level of play the first time, so I'm not seeing why he would be now.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  10. #68
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    In fairness to Arena's "legacy" views on the game... On the heels of Greece winning the 2004 Euros, I remember bunker ball and 5-4-1 formations were en vogue during the 2006 World Cup (Italy won, go figure!), only for Spain's tiki-taka to run roughshod over all of the cynicism two years later.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

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  12. #69
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    The Guardian says, "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it."

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...P=share_btn_tw
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    The Guardian says, "Be careful what you wish for, you may get it."

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...P=share_btn_tw
    There is a scathing article in the Guardian from 11/17 which basically says Klinsmann is right about the state of American soccer. On thing they pointed out was that there are no consequences for failure in the leagues here. I don't follow MLS or the European leagues much, but I'll watch a game if I can and from my perspective they are at least correct about the quality of play. MLS clearly doesn't have the talent and so it does leave guys in a quandary; if the best players stay here and raise the quality of the league, they risk their own development by not being pushed by a higher level of talent. I don't know if Klinsmann was the right guy, but I really doubt that going back to Arena is going to be a successful solution, either. I hope he's just there to get them to 2018.

    What strikes me about the national team and the organization of youth soccer is that it pales in comparison to the other national development programs. My daughter, for instance, understands that as a US Swimming member, she is part of the larger effort to put the best swimmers in international pools. She gets a monthly magazine that puts kids like her on the same page (literally) with Lilly King. It doesn't seem to me that US Soccer has the same reach or impact. Our local club team, which fields very good traveling teams, seems also to be part daycare.
    Last edited by SunDeck; 11-22-2016 at 08:24 AM.
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  14. #71
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    There is a scathing article in the Guardian from 11/17 which basically says Klinsmann is right about the state of American soccer. On thing they pointed out was that there are no consequences for failure in the leagues here. I don't follow MLS or the European leagues much, but I'll watch a game if I can and from my perspective they are at least correct about the quality of play. MLS clearly doesn't have the talent and so it does leave guys in a quandary; if the best players stay here and raise the quality of the league, they risk their own development by not being pushed by a higher level of talent. I don't know if Klinsmann was the right guy, but I really doubt that going back to Arena is going to be a successful solution, either. I hope he's just there to get them to 2018.
    I'm certainly not the right person to pass judgement on the USMNT program. My interest is very casual. I hope they do well but it's not something I obsess about. However, from what I understand, the interest in soccer here is dwarfed by the interest in soccer in other countries. It makes sense since for those countries it's basically soccer and that's it. Basketball is popular but somehow I don't think it has the hearts and minds of people like soccer does. It's just the opposite here. There are so many options for young people here including soccer. They know where the money is at. That's a great point about guys who play here as opposed to overseas. I am not sure how you can change that. To use a baseball comparison, could Japanese baseball ever get to be on a par with MLB? As for the coaches of the USMNT, it doesn't seem like Klinsman was the answer. It seemed like a good idea at the time but it just didn't work. Where do they go from here? Do they stick with Arenas or go out and hire some big shot from the Premier League and give him carte blanche over the program? As I understand it, Klinsman wasn't just the coach of the USMNT, he was also the overall director of the soccer program in the US. That seems like a lot of responsibility to put on one person.

    What strikes me about the national team and the organization of youth soccer is that it pales in comparison to the other national development programs. My daughter, for instance, understands that as a US Swimming member, she is part of the larger effort to put the best swimmers in international pools. She gets a monthly magazine that puts kids like her on the same page (literally) with Lilly King. It doesn't seem to me that US Soccer has the same reach or impact. Our local club team, which fields very good traveling teams, seems also to be part daycare.
    That may be due to the fact that there has only been an effort to emphasize soccer here only over the past 40 years. From what I understand, it basically started from nothing. It seems to me every little kid plays soccer at one point or another while they are a kid. It's what like Little League used to be for boys. The thing about soccer is that you can hide a kid with no skills more than you can with other sports. In baseball/softball you can stick a kid in RF but he/she is eventually going to come up to bat and all the attention will be on them. In basketball, you only have 5 guys playing so the odds are they will be involved sooner rather than later and when you get the ball, the lack of skills will show. In football you aren't going to put a kid with no skills at a skill position and even if you put them on the line, they are going to be exposed. I don't know how it's like in other countries but I'm guessing the kids with no skills get weeded out more quickly there than they do here. They don't have football or baseball or basketball - to a lesser extent - to fall back on. Are youth soccer coaches in other countries more intense - for lack of a better word - than youth soccer coaches are here? Are youth soccer coaches in other countries retired pros? Maybe it doesn't even have anything to do with the coaches. You see countries like Brazil where kids play soccer on the streets with nothing more than a pile of rags taped together. It's kind of like how baseball used to be here. There was Little League but kids also would cobble together enough for a crude ball and/or bat and play for hours on end. I have no idea what kind of effort is being made to get American kids on a par with their foreign counterparts in soccer. I don't know if one man can change it. But it will take time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

  15. #72
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Maybe the modern US equivalent of kids playing soccer in the streets of Brazil or the bygone days of sandlot baseball is really pickup basketball. Chip makes a good point about the cultural differences; it's hard to say whether soccer will ever break through to become one of the real major sports. It seems the likelihood is there, but the fanaticism will be imported to a certain extent.

    While I'm on the subject of home grown soccer, I'd like to point out that in forty plus years of playing and watching I may have become more knowledgeable about that game than baseball. I often find myself watching it on a different level than those around me. I'm seeing guys running to space, moving strategically on the field while those around me focus on the ball, which I mention just to point out (perhaps in a self serving way) that although I don't really follow the game that much, my soccer IQ for what is occurring on field, for the flow of a game, etc. is very high. I really LOVE to watch soccer. However, and I hope I don't offend anyone, I almost can't stand watching the game with American fans. There is this vocabulary and manner of speaking or cheering that has driven me nuts forever. It's as if people have a need to prove they are real fans, who have played the game. Here are a few phrases I heard Sunday at the IU NCAA tournament game that made me want to yell, "Can't you just speak like you're not trying to prove you're a soccer professor?!"

    "Pretty ball, Patrick!": A response to a nice heal ball that created an overlap. Since the 70s, the word "pretty" (or the far worse "lovely") has been a favorite of the "educated" American soccer fan. Also, note the use of the player's given name, whether he goes by it or not; Will is William, Alex is Alexander. Inexplicably, this is mandatory.
    "Oh, nice idea, Louis!": A response to what was actually miscommunication between a midfielder and a forward, resulting in a ball to space that didn't end up being occupied by a team mate. This shows that the true fan appreciates the creativity, despite the fact that two players who practice together daily can't get on the same page when it counts.
    "Sir!" or "Referee!": The constant refrain of everyone along the sideline whenever the opposing team touches one of their players. Contact does not equal a foul. Never has, never will.
    "Off side!": This is my equivalent of the balk call in baseball. Folks, if a guy runs to the end line and passes the ball backward to the center, he doesn't automatically become off side unless the ball comes back his way. He is not in play, he is not offside. But even England got offside wrong on their 2012 Olympic coin, so maybe people can have a pass.
    "Push Out!": Evidently, only smart fans know that it's best to force the other team out of the box on a clear. By yelling this, one only proves their grasp of fundamentals, not nuance. The act of pushing out for a Division I soccer player on one of the country's best teams is a reflex, not the product of thought.
    "Square, Peter!": Just. Shut. Up.
    Last edited by SunDeck; 11-22-2016 at 11:36 AM.
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    There is a scathing article in the Guardian from 11/17 which basically says Klinsmann is right about the state of American soccer. On thing they pointed out was that there are no consequences for failure in the leagues here. I don't follow MLS or the European leagues much, but I'll watch a game if I can and from my perspective they are at least correct about the quality of play. MLS clearly doesn't have the talent and so it does leave guys in a quandary; if the best players stay here and raise the quality of the league, they risk their own development by not being pushed by a higher level of talent. I don't know if Klinsmann was the right guy, but I really doubt that going back to Arena is going to be a successful solution, either. I hope he's just there to get them to 2018.
    One thing that was strange was Klinsmann really seemed to punish guys who went to the English Championship(league below Premier League) which to me seemed odd because he'd also gripe about guys coming back to play in MLS and not get quality competition.

    What strikes me about the national team and the organization of youth soccer is that it pales in comparison to the other national development programs. My daughter, for instance, understands that as a US Swimming member, she is part of the larger effort to put the best swimmers in international pools. She gets a monthly magazine that puts kids like her on the same page (literally) with Lilly King. It doesn't seem to me that US Soccer has the same reach or impact. Our local club team, which fields very good traveling teams, seems also to be part daycare.
    This is the biggest problem imo. Just like I've always thought major league teams would be smart to pay their best coaches at Rookie League and Single A to set a standard going into the majors, I'd think it would be best for the USMNT to put the most qualified youth coaches at the youngest levels. Instead, it's generally guys who may or may not have played soccer and are volunteering to coach their kid's club team.

    I think part of the problem is with as big of a player pool as we see in the US, it would be impossible to winnow it down to truly identify the best players when they're younger than 10, and more importantly, to put them together and have them practicing against each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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  18. #74
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    One thing that was strange was Klinsmann really seemed to punish guys who went to the English Championship(league below Premier League) which to me seemed odd because he'd also gripe about guys coming back to play in MLS and not get quality competition.



    This is the biggest problem imo. Just like I've always thought major league teams would be smart to pay their best coaches at Rookie League and Single A to set a standard going into the majors, I'd think it would be best for the USMNT to put the most qualified youth coaches at the youngest levels. Instead, it's generally guys who may or may not have played soccer and are volunteering to coach their kid's club team.
    Wow, this is a great point. I was very lucky; at age seven my coach was from Italy and he'd played semi professionally. We learned to juggle and did it nearly half of every practice. And from what I remember, he lived across the street from the school where we practiced and just stopped by one day to ask if he could help out. Ranio Spatola, I'll never forget him.
    Last edited by SunDeck; 11-22-2016 at 12:06 PM.
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  19. #75
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    Re: USMNT - Russia 2018 WC

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    There is a scathing article in the Guardian from 11/17 which basically says Klinsmann is right about the state of American soccer. On thing they pointed out was that there are no consequences for failure in the leagues here. I don't follow MLS or the European leagues much, but I'll watch a game if I can and from my perspective they are at least correct about the quality of play. MLS clearly doesn't have the talent and so it does leave guys in a quandary; if the best players stay here and raise the quality of the league, they risk their own development by not being pushed by a higher level of talent. I don't know if Klinsmann was the right guy, but I really doubt that going back to Arena is going to be a successful solution, either. I hope he's just there to get them to 2018.

    What strikes me about the national team and the organization of youth soccer is that it pales in comparison to the other national development programs. My daughter, for instance, understands that as a US Swimming member, she is part of the larger effort to put the best swimmers in international pools. She gets a monthly magazine that puts kids like her on the same page (literally) with Lilly King. It doesn't seem to me that US Soccer has the same reach or impact. Our local club team, which fields very good traveling teams, seems also to be part daycare.
    A few things:

    - As much as I'd like to see relegation in MLS, it would be to eliminate the complacency in many of the league's lesser teams and to create urgency for each club, not to improve the national team. There's just not much of a connection between the two concepts.

    - MLS is pretty good league. It's a better league than the Championship. And it keeps improving. It's not on par with elite leagues, but it's moving in the right direction.

    - Soccer's too distributed for a national program to be in control of development. There's been efforts to improve entry-level coaching. I can say from experience that the youth ranks are emphasizing skills and a passing-oriented game far more than they were a decade ago, though your mileage will vary. MLS teams now have their own development academies, which is where a lot of the elite players are going to come through in the future. Yet a lot of elite kids will head over to Europe in their teens, like Christian Pulisic. IMO, what the national team and national programs need to do is set a high bar in terms of expectations, allowing development programs to chase that standard.

    - The USMNT has come a long way in the past 25 years. It has improved to the point where not making the knockout rounds of the World Cup would be considered a disappointment. That's the minimum we should expect. Advancing deeper in the World Cup is the next target.

    - Seems to me the biggest current on-field challenge for the USMNT is playing dangerous football when Clint Dempsey isn't there. He's been the team's genie in the final third for a very long time.
    Wait until the year after next year.

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