Jesse Winker

[lollipopcurve]

Those who projected Winker as one of the best hitting prospects in the minors felt he would hit for good extra base power. The detractors have said he doesn't have enough power to be a difference making corner OF. Right now, the optimists have to be hoping something changes.

[Benihana]

Of course, Encarnacion was a teenager at the time. Renda is 25.

True

[dougdirt]

Those who projected Winker as one of the best hitting prospects in the minors felt he would hit for good extra base power. The detractors have said he doesn't have enough power to be a difference making corner OF. Right now, the optimists have to be hoping something changes.

Right now it's May 29th and most of us understand it's a long season. If Jesse Winker had the numbers of Calten Daal's career, for his entire career and we were sitting around saying just wait, it's coming, that would be one thing. But Winker's shown he's got power pretty much every step along the way. It's just not there for 2016 yet. I'm about as worried about Jesse Winker turning into Dee Gordon as I am Joey Votto turning into Adam Dunn without the power.

[Benihana]

Without even thinking about the big league performance, this has been a pretty ugly year for Reds prospects as well. Other than Amir Garrett, Jackson Stephens, and Cody Reed everyone has disappointed through the first two months. Hoping some will turn it around now that things are warming up, and Winker tops that list.

With Stephenson, it's the control.
With Travieso, it's the gophers.
With Davis, it's the K's.
With Mella, it's the first inning.
With Rainey, it's the everything.
With Winker, it's the SLG.
With Ervin, it's the AVG.
With T.Stephenson and Blandino, it's the OPS.
With Jagielo, it's the everything.

I get it, I know they are PROSPECTS and not everything will be perfect all the time. They take time to develop. There will always be weaknesses and adjustments. But it's hard to argue with the fact that 2016 has been a disastrous year for the Cincinnati Reds organization across the board.

[dougdirt]

This board used to be a lot more fun. It seems that the big league team sucking has sucked a lot of the fun out of this forum as well. So many complaints anymore. Or maybe I just didn't notice it as much. /endrant

[Benihana]

This board used to be a lot more fun. It seems that the big league team sucking has sucked a lot of the fun out of this forum as well. So many complaints anymore. Or maybe I just didn't notice it as much. /endrant

Agree with you, and I say that fully realizing I've become one of the bigger pessimists around.

For me personally, it isn't as much this year's performance (which I fully expected to be atrocious) as it was this past offseason. When all is said and done, I think the 2015/2016 offseason will go down as the worst offseason this team has seen since the century began. The Williams promotion coupled with the Frazier and Chapman debacles set the franchise back at least a couple years. I'm really hoping things change with next month's' draft and international signing period but I'm not optimistic. The decision making leaves me extremely pessimistic. I'm actually trying to see silver linings as I do think the future pitching staff carries a lot of hope, but the bats carry an equal if not greater amount of hopelessness, and nothing I've seen, heard or observed leaves much room for future optimism that that'll change.

I'm sorry if that brings people down, as I actually prefer to be a glass half full kinda guy (look at my posting history all the way back to the JimBo years), but I also like to be somewhat realistic in assessing my favorite baseball team.

[OnBaseMachine]

I have to agree with Benihana. Other than a few guys, the Reds minor leagues have been disappointing to follow. I think Winker will be fine though.

The Dick Williams setting the Reds back comment is baffling.

[dougdirt]

Guys - it's May. They play a whole bunch of baseball games for a reason. The complaining about this player not doing this or that started the second week of April. If August rolls around and so-and-so isn't performing, I get a post here and there about it. But man, for the last five weeks we've been seeing posts from all kinds of users about guys not performing the exact way they wanted them too. Might be time to just take a break from RZ for a while and hope it's a different feeling when I come back. Anymore all it is is a rip-em-and-shred-em bash fest on players, front office guys, scouts, each other. Just isn't fun any longer.

[Cannon]

I'm always optimistic. Probably to a fault.

Not worried about Winker at all. The guy is 6'3 over 200lbs and he barrels the ball with consistency while striking out fairly rarely and has a great feel for the strike zone and pitches. Winker has easy projectability with his power and size, and he's already great at the hardest part of hitting.

[Kc61]

People watch baseball for the immediate gratification of winning. So it's not surprising that folks are impatient and unhappy with so much losing.

But if you look at this from the broader perspective, there is every reason for optimism.

This isn't a game of computer baseball. There are business realities that sometimes result in particular deals being sub-optimal.

But overall this team has amassed lots of young talent. And have not yet even had their first very "high" draft choice, which often comes with rebuilding.

As for Winker, if he turns out to be a .350 OBP man with little power, he will still be a contributor to the Reds. Playing in GABP, his home run total will probably get a boost.

[TheBigLebowski]

The system has some choice arms. Almost no bats.

The returns on the two big offseason trades have been largely disappointing.

The big league club is freaking atrocious.

I don't know how people can realistically expect a different mood.

[dougdirt]

The system has some choice arms. Almost no bats.

The returns on the two big offseason trades have been largely disappointing.

The big league club is freaking atrocious.

I don't know how people can realistically expect a different mood.

It's not necessarily the mood. It's the constant complaining. After every game so-and-so isn't good enough.

I don't know, it's like people have started treating the minor league system in the same way they treat the big leagues. As if they are there only to be judged on performance - and immediate gratification. That's not really what the minor leagues are. They are for development. These guys aren't finished, it's why they are still in the minor leagues. I get complaining that Zack Cozart still isn't walking. Or that Alfredo Simon is getting his brains beat in. They are in the big leagues. They are getting paid big dollars to perform. They are at a point in their career where they are what they are, probably. We have to watch that every day (or every 5). I don't know, I just see that as a very different thing.

But after every start where minor league player has a few walks, or this guy has some strikeouts in a game, or this guys not hitting for power, or we didn't draft Tim Lincecum or whoever his more recent counter part is - I don't know, it's just gotten to the point where the complaining is going on way more than it's ever gone on.

[TheBigLebowski]

It's not necessarily the mood. It's the constant complaining. After every game so-and-so isn't good enough.

Ha. I understand. But the problem is, after every game, so & so ISN'T good enough.

[dougdirt]

Ha. I understand. But the problem is, after every game, so & so ISN'T good enough.

So what? They are in the minor leagues. That's why they are there. Because they aren't ready for the big leagues right now.

[WrongVerb]

Ha. I understand. But the problem is, after every game, so & so ISN'T good enough.

The players in the minors are in the minors because, by definition, they aren't good enough for the majors. What is your point, exactly?