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Thread: Jesse Winker

  1. #31
    Overton Window Breaker WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So what? They are in the minor leagues. That's why they are there. Because they aren't ready for the big leagues right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    The players in the minors are in the minors because, by definition, they aren't good enough for the majors. What is your point, exactly?
    Jinx!
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  3. #32
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    It's pretty easy to tune out the minor leagues, you have to go out of your way to find out the scores and performances. If I wasn't enjoying it, I wouldn't bother.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

  4. #33
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Guys - it's May. They play a whole bunch of baseball games for a reason. The complaining about this player not doing this or that started the second week of April. If August rolls around and so-and-so isn't performing, I get a post here and there about it. But man, for the last five weeks we've been seeing posts from all kinds of users about guys not performing the exact way they wanted them too. Might be time to just take a break from RZ for a while and hope it's a different feeling when I come back. Anymore all it is is a rip-em-and-shred-em bash fest on players, front office guys, scouts, each other. Just isn't fun any longer.
    I honestly didn't start this thread to bash Winker. I was just asking what others thought was going on with him.

  5. #34
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I honestly didn't start this thread to bash Winker. I was just asking what others thought was going on with him.
    It's not just this thread, this was just the one where I vented my thoughts on where the board has gone in general.

  6. #35
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It's not necessarily the mood. It's the constant complaining. After every game so-and-so isn't good enough.

    I don't know, it's like people have started treating the minor league system in the same way they treat the big leagues. As if they are there only to be judged on performance - and immediate gratification. That's not really what the minor leagues are. They are for development. These guys aren't finished, it's why they are still in the minor leagues. I get complaining that Zack Cozart still isn't walking. Or that Alfredo Simon is getting his brains beat in. They are in the big leagues. They are getting paid big dollars to perform. They are at a point in their career where they are what they are, probably. We have to watch that every day (or every 5). I don't know, I just see that as a very different thing.

    But after every start where minor league player has a few walks, or this guy has some strikeouts in a game, or this guys not hitting for power, or we didn't draft Tim Lincecum or whoever his more recent counter part is - I don't know, it's just gotten to the point where the complaining is going on way more than it's ever gone on.
    Thank the rebuild. People are told that the team is playing for the future so this year doesn't matter. They are subjected to a team that is playing on pace with the 62 Mets, so they start to look toward this pie in the sky future (supposed to start in 2017 per the Reds public stance BTW) that has been promised as the reward for being subjected to laughable play on the big league team. The next natural instinct is to start trying to piece together what that big league team is going to look like. They start to put names in positions and in roles. They look at how those guys are doing and start to have doubts that it's going to work. They express concern. Shocker!!!

    I actually think the board is surprisingly positive under the circumstances.
    Last edited by mth123; 05-29-2016 at 10:04 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  8. #36
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So what? They are in the minor leagues. That's why they are there. Because they aren't ready for the big leagues right now.
    I was speaking to the overall state of the franchise. Big leagues on down. Just not a lot of positive stuff happening. Injuries, underwhelming to downright embarrassing performances, etc.

    And they ARE in the minor leagues to improve, of course. But they are playing against other minor leaguers. None of our farm bats are doing anything to really celebrate, and Winker is the prize bat in our system presently. People are going to watch everything he does very closely and often with an abundance of criticism, fair or unfair.
    I heard your record..it's alright.

  9. #37
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Came to read some discussion, found more hand wringing. Lovely.....
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

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  11. #38
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Thank the rebuild. People are told that the team is playing for the future so this year doesn't matter. They are subjected to a team that is playing on pace with the 62 Mets, so they start to look toward this pie in the sky future (supposed to start in 2017 per the Reds public stance BTW) that has been promised as the reward for being subjected to laughable play on the big league team. The next natural instinct is to start trying to piece together what that big league team is going to look like. They start to put names in positions and in roles. They look at how those guys are doing and start to have doubts that it's going to work. They express concern. Shocker!!!

    I actually think the board is surprisingly positive under the circumstances.
    Absolutely. When the big league team wasn't the worst thing ever, the minor leagues were a "nice to have", and people wouldn't sweat a hiccup in development here and there because they weren't as necessary- we had the big league team to worry about and follow. In this unique season, the minor leagues are the only hope that anybody can hold, and as a result every game, every start, every at-bat is under a much larger microscope. It probably isn't fair to the prospects (in the extremely remote chance they actually care what is being said about them on a message board) because they deserve time to develop and work out the kinks, but it's clearly a product of not having any sort of big league product to speak of or concentrate on. We all want a shred of hope for next year, or even 2018, and when Robert Stephenson walks the bases loaded or Jesse Winker can't hit his way out of a wet paper bag for a month, it can be kerosene on the fire of frustration that is being fueled by supporting the worst (or second worst) team in Major League Baseball.
    Go BLUE!!!

  12. #39
    Greene Man Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    This board used to be a lot more fun. It seems that the big league team sucking has sucked a lot of the fun out of this forum as well. So many complaints anymore. Or maybe I just didn't notice it as much. /endrant
    ....what do you expect?
    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Ghosts, you gotta lay off the weaponized hallucinogens, my man.

  13. #40
    Greene Man Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So what? They are in the minor leagues. That's why they are there. Because they aren't ready for the big leagues right now.
    Many of them aren't ready for the minor leagues, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Ghosts, you gotta lay off the weaponized hallucinogens, my man.

  14. #41
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    ....what do you expect?
    Some understanding that these are kids in the minor leagues who will fail a lot and take time to develop.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

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  16. #42
    Greene Man Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Some understanding that these are kids in the minor leagues who will fail a lot and take time to develop.
    OTOH, a lot of these players are the "near major league" ready talent we've been told is on the way to cure the losing. Like the thread subject himself, Winker.

    If it were just him it'd be one thing. But nearly every prospect the Reds are apparently banking their future on is struggling in a concerning way. For somebody like Robert Stephenson, it's stuff like walks, which have been at a concerning rate for
    a long time now. I'll be surprised if he adjusts to be a serious contributor before he hits arbitration tbh. And he's just the tip of the iceberg.
    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Ghosts, you gotta lay off the weaponized hallucinogens, my man.

  17. #43
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    NM
    Last edited by mth123; 05-30-2016 at 09:16 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  18. #44
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    There isn't time though. We were told contention in 2017. People are expecting these kids to be ready to provide that. I don't believe it, but when I say they won't because some patience is needed. I'm called negative.
    Two months into 2016 = there's no time to be decent in 2017?

    I get what you're saying, but my specific complaint here is with posters getting on Jesse Winker. He had a hot April, he had a slumping May. So now he sucks and this is proof that the entire rebuild is a bridge to nowhere? C'mon. If it were Peraza and he was tanking I would get the hand-wringing. But this just doesn't make sense to me.

    I do also think it's funny that so much of the complaining on here is about hitting (Our major leaguers can't hit, we have no hitters, we can't develop hitters, Chris Buckley hits kittens in the face for fun), when it's clear at the major league level that the team is playing 62 Mets-like because pitching is still the Achilles heel. Our major league pitchers are hurt and our minor league pitchers are still developing, hence the ugly mishmash of a few prospects, a few non-prospects, and lot of tired retreads in the major league rotation and bullpen.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

  19. #45
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Jesse Winker

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Two months into 2016 = there's no time to be decent in 2017?

    I get what you're saying, but my specific complaint here is with posters getting on Jesse Winker. He had a hot April, he had a slumping May. So now he sucks and this is proof that the entire rebuild is a bridge to nowhere? C'mon. If it were Peraza and he was tanking I would get the hand-wringing. But this just doesn't make sense to me.

    I do also think it's funny that so much of the complaining on here is about hitting (Our major leaguers can't hit, we have no hitters, we can't develop hitters, Chris Buckley hits kittens in the face for fun), when it's clear at the major league level that the team is playing 62 Mets-like because pitching is still the Achilles heel. Our major league pitchers are hurt and our minor league pitchers are still developing, hence the ugly mishmash of a few prospects, a few non-prospects, and lot of tired retreads in the major league rotation and bullpen.
    Some people are reacting to the major league team. Many though are looking towards the future. I can see most of those pitching problems being resolved from within over the next couple of years (probably not by 2017 though). I don't see Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz but I think there will be plenty of pitching top to bottom that this team can win with. When I look at the position guys, I have trouble seeing who will be this team's offense. Votto, Peraza and Suarez play the roles of Who, What and I Don't know. Winker in LF. Is Hamilton still in CF? That would be fine if they have bats at C, SS and RF. Rodriguez at SS? Then they probably can't carry Hamilton anymore? Can Duvall or Winker play RF so they both could be in the line-up? Why aren't they finding out? Suarez, Peraza, Hamilton and Rodriguez are all bottom third of the order guys. Duvall, if he plays, should probably hit 6th with his OBP problems. Winker and Votto both look like number 2 hitters. I really don't see a lead-off guy and not really anyone to hit 3, 4 or 5. Those spots provide the lions share of the offense on a normal team. So, using those pieces, Peraza 2B, Winker LF, Votto 1b, Duvall RF, Suarez 3B, Barnhart C, Rodriguez SS, Pitcher, Hamilton CF. At least three of those guys need to be replaced for this team to be taken seriously. That's a tall order by 2017 or even 2018. I don't see any internal candidates. If you are being realistic, do you?
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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