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Thread: It's time for the Affiliation Shuffle Again

  1. #1
    Moderator JaxRed's Avatar
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    It's time for the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Or hopefully the non-shuffle this time. AAA (Louisville) and High A (Daytona) are signed thru 2018. But AA Pensacola, Low A Dayton, and Rookie League Billings all expire this season.

    Billings has been with us 40 years, looked to have a loaded team, and the Reds sent them the #1 pick. I kind of assume they will re-sign.

    But we have not put very good teams on the field in Pensacola, but look to lock up a playoff spot this season. Pensacola is kind of a crown jewel and could have a lot of suitors if it became available, but as you can see from this list, not a lot of teams are available even at this stage.

    http://minorleaguesource.com/pdc.html

    You could make an argument that Pensacola might be more interested in getting a Miami franchise.

    But for the first time, I have to wonder if Reds might end up losing the Dragons. The Dragons now have new ownership for the first time, and the Reds have put generally bad teams there recently. One playoff appearance in last 8 years, and this years team is playing at a .290 pace.

    And if Dayton wants to go looking there are a lot of clubs expiring this time.
    Last edited by JaxRed; 06-20-2016 at 12:44 AM.
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

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    Greene Man Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    For the Dragons to leave the Reds would be for them to pretty much shoot themselves in the foot. Hell they get plenty of attendance from Reds fans who drive up to see the Dragons play.
    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Ghosts, you gotta lay off the weaponized hallucinogens, my man.

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    Moderator JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    By no means am I saying it will happen. But this is the first time I ever considered it a possibility.
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

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    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    For the Dragons to leave the Reds would be for them to pretty much shoot themselves in the foot. Hell they get plenty of attendance from Reds fans who drive up to see the Dragons play.
    The only way the Dragons could leave is if the Reds said it was ok. The Dragons need the Reds permission to exist because they are too close to their market. There's zero chance the Reds allow another team to take that affiliation. None.

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Pensacola made the playoffs last season as well.

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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The only way the Dragons could leave is if the Reds said it was ok. The Dragons need the Reds permission to exist because they are too close to their market. There's zero chance the Reds allow another team to take that affiliation. None.
    Does this control by the Reds in any way affect the players sent to Dayton? The Reds know the Dragons aren't going to leave for another organization, so when a difficult player decision comes up, the other minor league organization gets the benefit of the doubt?

    More broadly, are allocation decisions ever impacted by the relationship between the Reds and the minor league franchise? Maybe something Redsof72 might be able to weigh in on.

  11. #7
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Dayton's sellout streak is tied at the hip to their affiliation with the Reds.
    All models are wrong. Some of them are useful.

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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    Does this control by the Reds in any way affect the players sent to Dayton? The Reds know the Dragons aren't going to leave for another organization, so when a difficult player decision comes up, the other minor league organization gets the benefit of the doubt?

    More broadly, are allocation decisions ever impacted by the relationship between the Reds and the minor league franchise? Maybe something Redsof72 might be able to weigh in on.
    Absolutely, it happens. Not just with the Reds, but everywhere. The most desirable minor league situations have leverage. If they are not given winning teams, they shop for someone who will. A few years back, the Dodgers put their high-A club in the Midwest League to save an affiliation.

    A really bad year/s in the lower levels is going to also make it tougher to re-sign the higher affiliates. The Pensacola owner sees that the Reds two A-clubs are a combined 30 games under .500 and that is what is coming to him.
    Last edited by redsof72; 06-19-2016 at 09:51 PM.

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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    Dayton's sellout streak is tied at the hip to their affiliation with the Reds.
    That is a hard thing to measure. I think there is some truth in what you are saying but I also think a percentage of the fan base is fed up. A big league GM who really understood the importance of regional marketing, ala Bob Howsam, would never have allowed this to happen. They need Dayton fans to be Reds fans, to want to make the one hour drive. They need to develop that sense of connection.

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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Right now you have so many MLB teams worried about being stuck in Jackson, San Antonio, or Mobile that I doubt you see any real changes at the AA level for the next eight years. Once a MLB team gets placed in a inadquated stadium, it's hard to get out of it. I imagine the Reds would like a better way to get players to Lousiville from Pensacola but that unconvience is offset by Daytona players being able to fly in so quickly via Orlando. The PDC works best when both sides are talking about each other's needs and having realistic expectations of how to meet those needs. A team will put up with losing if they are getting players on rehab and exhibition games. I personally would like to see the White Sox, Diamondbacks, and Marlins out of the Southern League.
    http://diamondvisits.blogspot.com/ My Minor League stadium review site.

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Not that I think there's any chance of it happening, but I'd love to see the Reds move away from Billings (too soft on hitters, too hard on pitchers) and pick up a New York-Penn League affiliate. Loads of good choices getting freed up in that league. I'd be partial to see the Reds return to Burlington, VT (AA affiliate in the mid-80s).

    As for the AA situation, I'll take a shot in the dark and guess the Reds end up in Mobile.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  19. #12
    Moderator JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 19braves77 View Post
    Right now you have so many MLB teams worried about being stuck in Jackson, San Antonio, or Mobile that I doubt you see any real changes at the AA level for the next eight years. Once a MLB team gets placed in a inadquated stadium, it's hard to get out of it. I imagine the Reds would like a better way to get players to Lousiville from Pensacola but that unconvience is offset by Daytona players being able to fly in so quickly via Orlando. The PDC works best when both sides are talking about each other's needs and having realistic expectations of how to meet those needs. A team will put up with losing if they are getting players on rehab and exhibition games. I personally would like to see the White Sox, Diamondbacks, and Marlins out of the Southern League.
    I am very curious why you would care if the White Sox, DBacks and Marlins are in the Southern League? (as long as they are not in Pensacola)
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

  20. #13
    Backup First Baseman OGB's Avatar
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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    Dayton's sellout streak is tied at the hip to their affiliation with the Reds.
    Are the Red Sox still chasing their record?
    (Referring to Jack Hannahan signing with a Korean team)
    Since there are no teams on the moon, I guess South Korea's far enough from Cincinnati to satisfy me.
    -RichRed

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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    I am very curious why you would care if the White Sox, DBacks and Marlins are in the Southern League? (as long as they are not in Pensacola)
    Most of it is rushed or poor player development issues meaning I never see players to get excited about with these teams.
    http://diamondvisits.blogspot.com/ My Minor League stadium review site.

  22. #15
    Playoff Veteran sdwagers's Avatar
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    Re: It's time the Affiliation Shuffle Again

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Not that I think there's any chance of it happening, but I'd love to see the Reds move away from Billings (too soft on hitters, too hard on pitchers) and pick up a New York-Penn League affiliate. Loads of good choices getting freed up in that league. I'd be partial to see the Reds return to Burlington, VT (AA affiliate in the mid-80s).

    As for the AA situation, I'll take a shot in the dark and guess the Reds end up in Mobile.

    I'd love for the Reds to nab the Tennessee Smokies someday. Knoxville is on that line of Reds/ Braves country and would help the Reds fanbase. I think that Jacksonville or Pensacola are it this time around though.

    For rookie ball the Princeton makes a ton of sense in the WV market. (former affiliate too). Heck - I'll be selfish and would really love the Pulaski market as I have family there. (even if Princeton got the nod to see games in Pulaski) The Yankees have poured a TON of money into that place for sure. Billings makes no sense whatsoever.

    Dayton will never leave the Reds family of MiLB teams. Never.
    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    sdwagers for Reds GM!


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