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Thread: RP Ben Lively

  1. #16
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    This is a hell of a meltdown over a somewhat better version of Rookie Davis.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

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  4. #17
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    This is a hell of a meltdown over a somewhat better version of Rookie Davis.
    That's based on nada.

    What meltdown? By showing Lively's excellent stats after my last post was called craziness?

    Look, I had a feeling about Lively the year they drafted him. Still do. Just look at the production. It's "crazy" to think he's better than Robert Stephenson? Look at their career minor league stats. Lively has been significantly better. You take their names out of the equation and it would be laughable.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  5. #18
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    There's a reason you don't simply scout the line. David Holmberg was a freaking ace going by minor leagues before coming to the Reds. Lively at age 25 also had plenty of time to marinate in AA and AAA since leaving the Reds, it seems safe to say if the Phils really believed in him he'd have been up earlier.

    Lively could wind up having a better career than Stephenson, but in that scenario Stephenson completely washes out of baseball and Lively becomes Sam LeCure. You still go with the upside of a Stephenson every time.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

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  7. #19
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    . If he's gonna stick as a starter he'll need an actual putaway pitch.
    Well he has a Lively fastball and the movement on the curve is lively. I believe his change leaves many batter's legs Bent.

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  9. #20
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    There's a reason you don't simply scout the line. David Holmberg was a freaking ace going by minor leagues before coming to the Reds.

    Lively could wind up having a better career than Stephenson, but in that scenario Stephenson completely washes out of baseball and Lively becomes Sam LeCure. You still go with the upside of a Stephenson every time.
    Holmberg: false

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/re...d=holmbe001dav

    More hits than IP, 3.68 career milb era, 7.1 k/9

    Stephenson: I get the upside thing, but Stephenson's numbers outweigh the upside IMO. I believe Stephenson got overhyped by a lot of experts and they won't admit he sucks now as a result. JMO.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  10. #21
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Holmberg: false

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/re...d=holmbe001dav

    More hits than IP, 3.68 career milb era, 7.1 k/9

    Stephenson: I get the upside thing, but Stephenson's numbers outweigh the upside IMO. I believe Stephenson got hyped up by a lot of experts and they won't admit he sucks as a result. JMO.
    I said before coming to the Reds, look at the numbers when he was with Arizona. He's just one more obvious example.

    This is all because you "had a feeling" about Lively and he dominated minor leaguers with his craftiness. Did you miss where he didn't strike out a single batter in 7 innings? How far exactly do you think he's going with a 0.0 K/9?
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

  11. #22
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Holmberg: false

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/re...d=holmbe001dav

    More hits than IP, 3.68 career milb era, 7.1 k/9

    Stephenson: I get the upside thing, but Stephenson's numbers outweigh the upside IMO. I believe Stephenson got overhyped by a lot of experts and they won't admit he sucks now as a result. JMO.
    I'll listen, but, since you have said they are false, could you give just the stats he had before coming to the Reds...which is what Servo referred to.

  12. #23
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I said before coming to the Reds, look at the numbers when he was with Arizona. He's just one more obvious example.

    This is all because you "had a feeling" about Lively and he dominated minor leaguers with his craftiness. Did you miss where he didn't strike out a single batter in 7 innings? How far exactly do you think he's going with a 0.0 K/9?
    I just don't think you give up 100 less hits than innings pitches because craftiness.

    Yea, I didn't see his results today. Has nothing to with my opinion, good or bad. I saw his name when this thread popped up and it brought back old memories. Especially with how horrible the Reds rotation is right now.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  13. #24
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I'll listen, but, since you have said they are false, could you give just the stats he had before coming to the Reds...which is what Servo referred to.
    I'm not exactly sure which numbers to look at, but I guess AA when he was 21? His ERA was good but his WHIP was 1.195 and 6.6 k/9 - his numbers before that were pretty meh.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  14. #25
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    You can't scout a statline. You shouldn't try to do so, either.

  15. #26
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    My problem with trading Lively for Byrd was that Byrd was a convicted PED user, who failed a test after his time with the Reds, which means that he likely was cheating when a Red.

    But one thing to consider is that the Reds were able to trade Byrd to the Giants for Stephen Johnson, who was a decent prospect when he was acquired. I'm guessing he and Lively were similarly ranked at that time, though someone smarter than me can clarify this. The fact that Johnson never made it to the majors and Lively did, does make it hurt a bit, but neither were ever considered anything beyond a fringe prospect.

    That said, it sure would be great to have Lively starting for the Reds right now.
    Were going to get the pitching. -Bob Castellini
    You got the pitching, now what? - Reds fans

  16. #27
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Yay lists.

    Garrett came into the year top 75 prospect, he then showed the worst spin rate in baseball (I am serious when I say you kinda ruined Garrett in my eyes with that spin rate fact haha) and has been getting hit really hard.
    Bad news, bro....
    Amir Garrett average spin rate - 1917
    Ben Lively average spin rate - 1991

    Those would rank 207th and 209th in baseball of pitchers with 150 fastballs thrown. Out of 211.

  17. #28
    We are the angry mob cincyinco's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    "I hate to advocate chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone... But they've always worked for me."

    -Hunter S. Thompson

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  19. #29
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You can't scout a statline. You shouldn't try to do so, either.
    Perhaps, but maybe some should have done it a little more with Stephenson before declaring him the greatest arm the Reds organization has had in 40 years. Unfortunately, those of us that questioned Stephenson's MILB stats are seeing their fears
    come true.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  20. #30
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: RP Ben Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Perhaps, but maybe some should have done it a little more with Stephenson before declaring him the greatest arm the Reds organization has had in 40 years. Unfortunately, those of us that questioned Stephenson's MILB stats are seeing their fears
    come true.
    Stephenson is off-topic but I do agree on that. If you are walking too many guys year after year, there's no way to "scout" around that.

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