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Thread: School and Adult Reading Survey

  1. #31
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    Well, there's your problem.
    I'm a librarian and if I had a dime for every parent who I've witnessed telling their kid to put that book back because it's not advanced enough, not their reading level, not a classic, etc., I'd be retired. The critical time in the life of a reader is when they are no longer being told what to read and parents/teachers have the opportunity to help them cultivate an interest in it or not. Being concerned about whether a kid reads classics misses the forest for the trees because many of what parents and teachers consider classics won't make a lick of sense to them unless they have an interest in reading them.

    Secondly, I find the distinction between classics and enjoyable a false dichotomy. Classics are classics because there is agreement that they are...great reads. I won't get into the details of what that means, but suffice it to say a book can't be a classic unless it's readable. Now, many classics are very complicated, or contain multiple layers that are subtle and difficult for young minds to grasp. So, the issue of whether a book is enjoyable is separate from whether it's a classic and the problem is that people often confuse that. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Dahl, they all wrote classics. Eminently readable, enjoyable classics.
    I never put much stock in the actual material that my kids read (I have five kids), as long as they read. It could have been anything from comic books to repair manuals to the back of baseball cards, as long as they read. Once they got in the habit of reading, they branched out in every direction on their own. Not sure if any of them have read Moby Dick yet, but give them time. I'd rather it was their idea.

    In fact, I taught myself French and German mainly by reading comic books. It's perfect- you have a picture associated with simple text. I graduated to simple tabloids, and then newspapers. I speak both languages better than most kids who took four years of it in high school, and often read tech manual and carry on conversations with foreign engineers. I'm not here to bash schools, but we are not all the same and it worked out much better for me that I learned French and German about the same way I learned English. I became fluent in English without knowing what an adverb was, so there was no reason I couldn't do it with other languages too.

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  4. #32
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    Well, there's your problem.
    I'm a librarian and if I had a dime for every parent who I've witnessed telling their kid to put that book back because it's not advanced enough, not their reading level, not a classic, etc., I'd be retired. The critical time in the life of a reader is when they are no longer being told what to read and parents/teachers have the opportunity to help them cultivate an interest in it or not. Being concerned about whether a kid reads classics misses the forest for the trees because many of what parents and teachers consider classics won't make a lick of sense to them unless they have an interest in reading them.

    Secondly, I find the distinction between classics and enjoyable a false dichotomy. Classics are classics because there is agreement that they are...great reads. I won't get into the details of what that means, but suffice it to say a book can't be a classic unless it's readable. Now, many classics are very complicated, or contain multiple layers that are subtle and difficult for young minds to grasp. So, the issue of whether a book is enjoyable is separate from whether it's a classic and the problem is that people often confuse that. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Dahl, they all wrote classics. Eminently readable, enjoyable classics.
    I guess I disagree with the notion that classics are classics because they are great reads. Within the past year or so I decided to read "A Farewell to Arms." You hear a lot about Hemingway as a great author, but I had never read anything by him. I picked it up, slogged my way through it, thought the story was good, the prose was different than I was used to, but I wasn't blown away by it, and to be honest if it wasn't a shorter read and I wasn't already pot committed, I would have stopped after a few days or reading it.

    I can name numerous books I was "forced" to read in High School that would fall under the line of classic. "Bless the Beast and Children" "Cheaper by the Dozen" "The Hobbit" "Beowulf" "The Grapes of Wrath" and I could go on and on. I didn't care for these books, I didn't care for a lot of stuff I was "forced" to read in school but I do think there should be some "forced" reading because of the historical importance of some of these novels. There were a lot of books that I read, didn't like them at the time, but am glad because of their historical importance. For me it was akin to reading a textbook, but important non the less.

    I disagree with the notion that classics are that because they are great reads. I think they are classics because we all have been forced to read them at one point or another and they are important to gain a perspective on different time periods. I guess my main question is how do you balance the actual enjoyment of reading as opposed to the tougher but important reads? For me I am more concerned with my child picking up a book and reading than what curriculum a teacher or school wants.

    Sorry if I hijacked this tread.

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  6. #33
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post

    For me I am more concerned with my child picking up a book and reading than what curriculum a teacher or school wants.
    I believe we are in agreement regarding this point. I think the point about "great reads" is a subjective one that we could butt heads on all day.
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  7. #34
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Two questions. I took the survey but can't remember if this is discussed.

    1. Do you care about the medium for reading? I go back and forth between my kindle and a physical book. The kindle is easier, but it does have a battery. I do like the feel of an actual book in my hand.

    2. What are your suggestions to close the gap between school reading and adult reading. More importantly, how do you balance the need for classics as opposed to reading enjoyable books?
    I did want to note that one of the questions covered mediums. I've been surprised that very few people listen to audiobooks; it may be the least chosen type.
    It is on the whole probable that we continually dream, but that consciousness makes such a noise that we do not hear it. Carl Jung.

  8. #35
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I guess I disagree with the notion that classics are classics because they are great reads. Within the past year or so I decided to read "A Farewell to Arms." You hear a lot about Hemingway as a great author, but I had never read anything by him. I picked it up, slogged my way through it, thought the story was good, the prose was different than I was used to, but I wasn't blown away by it, and to be honest if it wasn't a shorter read and I wasn't already pot committed, I would have stopped after a few days or reading it.

    I can name numerous books I was "forced" to read in High School that would fall under the line of classic. "Bless the Beast and Children" "Cheaper by the Dozen" "The Hobbit" "Beowulf" "The Grapes of Wrath" and I could go on and on. I didn't care for these books, I didn't care for a lot of stuff I was "forced" to read in school but I do think there should be some "forced" reading because of the historical importance of some of these novels. There were a lot of books that I read, didn't like them at the time, but am glad because of their historical importance. For me it was akin to reading a textbook, but important non the less.

    I disagree with the notion that classics are that because they are great reads. I think they are classics because we all have been forced to read them at one point or another and they are important to gain a perspective on different time periods. I guess my main question is how do you balance the actual enjoyment of reading as opposed to the tougher but important reads? For me I am more concerned with my child picking up a book and reading than what curriculum a teacher or school wants.

    Sorry if I hijacked this tread.
    Not at all; that's a large part of what my research is about.

    I heard a speaker at the Boston conference I attended in July say that we are encouraging our students to "fake read" by insisting they read the books we've determined are classics. I think she had a point. That's hard for me, because I love the classics and read them voluntarily as a kid, but I'm not sure I see any way around it.
    It is on the whole probable that we continually dream, but that consciousness makes such a noise that we do not hear it. Carl Jung.

  9. #36
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    Not at all; that's a large part of what my research is about.

    I heard a speaker at the Boston conference I attended in July say that we are encouraging our students to "fake read" by insisting they read the books we've determined are classics. I think she had a point. That's hard for me, because I love the classics and read them voluntarily as a kid, but I'm not sure I see any way around it.
    Audio books for me are long, good for long car rides, but unless you have lost your sight, they don't save you any time.

    "Fake read" is a fascinating term and upon hearing it makes a ton of sense from my days back in high school.

    My eight grade reading teacher had this thing where every so often you would have reading time. You would spread out across the room and read for a period of time. You kept a reading notebook discussing what you were reading, how far you are, and when you finished a book. She was the first one to really teach me how to "abandon" a book. Truthfully I think she has ulterior motives, she was a massive bookworm herself, but being able to pick out a book that you wanted and read it was important for me. Its what led me to guys like John Grishman and Michael Crichton (Jurassic Park was huge at the time.)

    The next year, my freshman english teacher had a list of books that we were to read. He said he read 30 pages a night, and required us to read 30 pages a night. It was a long list of books, some have stuck with me today (Dracula and The Count of Monte Christo) and others I shutter at. The problem with "fake reading" was he would have a 100 question test. Cliff notes were a must for his class, he recommended them but still told us we would fail if that was all we read.

    I wish, and I don't know if its possible, to merge the two types of teaching. But I think it goes back to SunDeck's point, what I consider a great read, he may not. Anyway good luck on your thesis, I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

  10. #37
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    I spend at least an hour and a half driving every day. That's my book time now. Any other time tends to be spent on research or classes. I've had a classmate's book on my Kindle for about a year now and haven't started it yet. But soon.
    It is on the whole probable that we continually dream, but that consciousness makes such a noise that we do not hear it. Carl Jung.

  11. #38
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    The Grapes of Wrath was pretty good.

    I think the problem with a book like Beowulf, and really many others possibly, is they are taught like they should be page turners, when really they should be taught in a combo History/Literature way. (I'm sure some teachers do this, mine didn't.)

    If we want to teach love of reading we'd probably be better off picking random beach reads and giving them to kids.
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    I did want to note that one of the questions covered mediums. I've been surprised that very few people listen to audiobooks; it may be the least chosen type.
    Just traveled by car from Montana to Wisconsin to Ohio and back to Montana. Radio is fine, particularly with Sirius/XM, but audio books sure helped the miles tick away a little easier.

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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    The Grapes of Wrath was pretty good.

    I think the problem with a book like Beowulf, and really many others possibly, is they are taught like they should be page turners, when really they should be taught in a combo History/Literature way. (I'm sure some teachers do this, mine didn't.)

    If we want to teach love of reading we'd probably be better off picking random beach reads and giving them to kids.
    When I've taught Beowulf, I've focused on the story instead of the elements. I think that the focus on individual story elements is part of what saps love of reading from students. You're required to teach them because of standardized tests, but too often the recommended lessons and material focus on them to the point that the story itself is lost. With something like Beowulf, a straight-through in-class reading is overwhelming, even if it's done by the teacher or another expressive reader.

    btw, I also think that having students read aloud is usually damaging. Having students read a paragraph or two then another student read the next section and so on effectively destroys the flow of the story.
    It is on the whole probable that we continually dream, but that consciousness makes such a noise that we do not hear it. Carl Jung.

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  17. #41
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    btw, I also think that having students read aloud is usually damaging. Having students read a paragraph or two then another student read the next section and so on effectively destroys the flow of the story.
    I always pegged teachers that did this as super, super lazy. Just wanted to kill clock.
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  18. #42
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    The Grapes of Wrath was pretty good.

    I think the problem with a book like Beowulf, and really many others possibly, is they are taught like they should be page turners, when really they should be taught in a combo History/Literature way. (I'm sure some teachers do this, mine didn't.)

    If we want to teach love of reading we'd probably be better off picking random beach reads and giving them to kids.
    I think this is the crux of the argument/discussion. I think reading comprehension is a very important skill that you need to learn in school but its difficult to get kids excited for reading when the subject is boring to many people.

    I think there is a lot of value to the Harry Potter series that came out, because for the most part kids were interested in those books, the early books appealed to a younger reader, and you could teach them in school.

    I am what you would consider a "beach" reader, I very seldom pick up a long, very in depth and intense book. Personally I think the love of reading is important, but its how you spend your free time, and some people read, some play video games, some do other things, to each his own.

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  20. #43
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I am what you would consider a "beach" reader, I very seldom pick up a long, very in depth and intense book.
    I've moved this way. I read The Goldfinch. Probably the most literary book I've read in the last 5 years. I just can't be bothered usually.

    I have small kids, the world is often a nightmare, I work constantly. I don't feel like being challenged.

    But I still read, probably 30-40 books a year. Not nearly as much as I did when I was a kid, not as much as I'd like, but you go through periods in life where you just want escapism in the little time there is to read. The funny thing is adolescence and childhood is probably one of those times, and yet we're giving kids Jane Austen.
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  21. #44
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    I did the survey, but as an ADHD child, (there was no such thing back then...you were just misbehaved) I, at most, finished five books front to back by the time I entered college. Was still able to get in the 98 percentile in Math on the SAT and increase my PSAT in the Verbal by 33% with some studying. Since I took the Sat in 1976, they reweighted it many times to modify it's degree of difficulty. One example was a mid-90's change that modified it by a 70 point increase in scoring from it's previous year.

    My point is that there are many different types of reading besides books, novels, etc. I find documents fascinating, and they fit the ADHD mind better than books. There's less opinion and more original text in them. Books remind me of webmasters who are always trying to create new bling for their sites, where I always have tried to eliminate as much "clutter" from my viewing page and text as possible.

    When I pick a book to read, I go straight to the Notes as it gives to me an insight on the accuracy and efficiency of the author if he/she/they are unknown to me. If I can't cross-reference a source, I'm not interested in it's text.

    Even historical novels need to be well-researched in it's historical context. It's fine as a child, bit I give children a lot of credit. I think they can disseminate truth from fiction. In other words, they can tell which historical part of a Bugs Bunny cartoon is true as he pitches for the Dodgers against the Giants and which is not. Too many pschologists believe children take everything literally. I don't think they are either that naive or that dumb. So, the Harry Potter series serves to introduce them to hundreds of new ideas and interests of the world (Britain mostly), that can lead to other new interests and discoveries. It's all about getting them to read anything,...simply anything. Expand the mind.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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  23. #45
    The pride is back. Assembly Hall's Avatar
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    Re: School and Adult Reading Survey

    Done. Great discussion thread as well. From a personal stand point the books I read as a kid have had an impact on the movies that enjoy now as a 49 year old man. And for that matter, TV shows that I enjoy watching.


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