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Thread: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

  1. #16
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I still can't believe that the Reds chose to keep a few guys on the 40-man over Rodriguez. It may not ever really matter, but you can't convince me that several of those guys are likely to be more productive than he was.
    I think the emergence of Duvall and Schleber made it an easy decision.
    Obviously, Winker is on the horizon too.

    The Reds are just not going to be able to give Yorman 400 at bats in 2017 and 2018 and hope he develops.
    Yorman was signed in 2009, he never really had a dominating season in the minors.
    Now, you have a good point that Yorman is young, but since he is out of options, he needs to produce now (not necessarily his fault).
    So why carry a guy to be the 4th or 5th OF when he is going to be OBP challenged, and may never figure it out.

    I still think Price was clearly frustrated with Yorman last year too. Now that is just my own speculation, but I am guessing that feeling was echoed throughout the Reds' organization.
    Yorman was even suspended for a reason that was never revealed last season.

    Now you have a point, there are guys on the 40 man roster that aren't likely to be better than Yorman, but it really does the Reds no good to carry Yorman on the 40 man all winter when they don't plan on putting him on the 25 man roster in the spring. They actually did him a favor by letting him opt for Free Agency now instead of cutting him in the spring.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #17
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I think the emergence of Duvall and Schleber made it an easy decision.
    Obviously, Winker is on the horizon too.

    The Reds are just not going to be able to give Yorman 400 at bats in 2017 and 2018 and hope he develops.
    Yorman was signed in 2009, he never really had a dominating season in the minors.
    Now, you have a good point that Yorman is young, but since he is out of options, he needs to produce now (not necessarily his fault).
    So why carry a guy to be the 4th or 5th OF when he is going to be OBP challenged, and may never figure it out.

    I still think Price was clearly frustrated with Yorman last year too. Now that is just my own speculation, but I am guessing that feeling was echoed throughout the Reds' organization.
    Yorman was even suspended for a reason that was never revealed last season.

    Now you have a point, there are guys on the 40 man roster that aren't likely to be better than Yorman, but it really does the Reds no good to carry Yorman on the 40 man all winter when they don't plan on putting him on the 25 man roster in the spring. They actually did him a favor by letting him opt for Free Agency now instead of cutting him in the spring.
    I guess my argument is why carry relievers who walk 5+ guys per inning who are in their mid-to-late 20's over a 24-year-old toolsy outfielder, who actually seemed to have figured some things out the last time he was on the field (hit very well in Triple-A after the first few weeks of struggles in 2015 - walked as many times in spring training in 2016 as he struck out).

    Whether they've got the 400 PA or not shouldn't matter. They let him walk and then went out and said they are looking for a RHH outfielder. Now, maybe they just don't agree with me that he can be a 4th outfielder tomorrow. And I guess that's fine, but I think they are very wrong about that one.

    There's just a lot of strange talent evaluation going on lately that's leaving me scratching my head. Alfredo Rodriguez headlining that, but there's another5-10 moves that are also real confusing, too. This is just one added to the pile. I'm guessing there will be another two or three by the end of the week when it comes to who they protect on the 40-man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sdwagers View Post
    I remember all the hype about Yorman and Juan Duran.... the next Dunn and Kearns they said.... welp they were n't even that.
    I literally never saw anyone say that about those two. The only time that Juan Duran even sniffed a Top 10 ranking within the Reds organization was after 2008 (BA had him #9). Since then he's never been close. The last time I think anyone ranked him as even a Top 25 prospect in the organization was after the 2009 season when BA ranked him 18th.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 11-15-2016 at 01:33 PM.

  4. #18
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post

    Seems to me the Reds are are starting to tilt away from guys who spend more time in the toolshed than in the workshop.
    You sure? This is the same team that is carrying Arismendy Alcantara on their roster right now. And a few relievers with stuff and no clue where the strikezone is. And on the flip side, they've carried some "skill guys" that don't actually have skill. Making contact and hitting the ball 80 feet isn't skill, even if you can do it with frequency.

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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    But she promised to go down with the ship and not raise a white flag. The Reds have hoisted theirs.
    “[Reading] is the sole means by which we slip, involuntarily, often helplessly, into another's skin, another's voice, another's soul" -- Joyce Carol Oates

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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    I was kinda referencing a few posters with that....


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    Well, that's what those words mean. He was here. If they don't keep him, he will have been lost/subtracted. I headed out the door today with two shoes on my feet. If I don't return with them, I have lost them. If I do return with them, I haven't added them. ---M2

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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    The entire list of Reds' farmhands that have opted for free agency: Thanks to Baseball America and Senor Gray.

    Cincinnati Reds (20)
    RHP: Caleb Cotham (AAA), Dayan Diaz (AAA), Drew Hayes (AAA), Matt Magill (AAA), Tim Melville (AAA), A.J. Morris (AAA), El’Hajj Muhammad (AA), Kevin Shackelford (AAA), Pedro Villarreal (AAA)
    C: Chris Berset (AAA), Rafael Lopez (AAA)
    2B: Ronald Bueno (AA), Ray Chang (AA), Hernan Iribarren (AAA)
    3B: Jermaine Curtis (AAA)
    SS: Carlos Triunfel (AAA)
    OF: Juan Duran (Hi A), Donald Lutz (AAA), Yorman Rodriguez (AAA), Kyle Waldrop (AAA)


    Read more at http://www.baseballamerica.com/minor...q5hHSUjFFai.99
    With Jermaine Curtis gone, who will they not call up from Louisville now?
    “[Reading] is the sole means by which we slip, involuntarily, often helplessly, into another's skin, another's voice, another's soul" -- Joyce Carol Oates

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  10. #22
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    With Jermaine Curtis gone, who will they not call up from Louisville now?
    Amir Garrett. They will let him go all three options years without actually calling him up.

    Seriously though, the cheapness meter is off the scale right now. How did they not call him up in September?

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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    You sure? This is the same team that is carrying Arismendy Alcantara on their roster right now. And a few relievers with stuff and no clue where the strikezone is. And on the flip side, they've carried some "skill guys" that don't actually have skill. Making contact and hitting the ball 80 feet isn't skill, even if you can do it with frequency.
    They're also carrying Tony Renda.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    There's just a lot of strange talent evaluation going on lately that's leaving me scratching my head. Alfredo Rodriguez headlining that, but there's another 5-10 moves that are also real confusing, too. This is just one added to the pile. I'm guessing there will be another two or three by the end of the week when it comes to who they protect on the 40-man.
    Care to elaborate?

  13. #25
    Middle Class Rut TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    I was in the Yorman camp. Completely unashamed to admit that. IMO his talent level is right there with Winker's with the exception of the ability to stay healthy.

    A healthy Yorman the last three years is the Reds starting RF now.

    Dude is brittle. I hope he can finally get to full strength and health, and have a career.
    "There was like a softness to it, a glow to it. I felt... I felt warm."

    -- Joseph Daniel Votto 7/10/2017

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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I was in the Yorman camp. Completely unashamed to admit that. IMO his talent level is right there with Winker's with the exception of the ability to stay healthy.

    A healthy Yorman the last three years is the Reds starting RF now.

    Dude is brittle. I hope he can finally get to full strength and health, and have a career.
    I'd still like to have him in the Reds organization. I don't have a ton of confidence in his future, but the talent's there. I think what Doug's saying about the players they are protecting makes a lot of sense.
    “[Reading] is the sole means by which we slip, involuntarily, often helplessly, into another's skin, another's voice, another's soul" -- Joyce Carol Oates

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    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    Care to elaborate?
    They paid the largest amateur signing bonus in their history to a guy who most believe can't hit his way out of a wet paper bag. That also led to them paying $4.75M MORE than they had to in order to sign Vladimir Gutierrez (which I have no issue with at all - before he signed I honestly thought he'd sign for over $10M given his age and the scouting reports). They kept Tyler Holt over Jake Cave coming out of the spring. Neither is exactly someone to fret over, but Tyler Holt is a slap hitting guy who runs. Jake Cave at least had a little bit of power to use and a tiny amount of upside. Some of the guys they picked up on waivers. Some of the guys they chose to keep on the 40-man over some other players that are seemingly way more talented.

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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    They paid the largest amateur signing bonus in their history to a guy who most believe can't hit his way out of a wet paper bag. That also led to them paying $4.75M MORE than they had to in order to sign Vladimir Gutierrez (which I have no issue with at all - before he signed I honestly thought he'd sign for over $10M given his age and the scouting reports). They kept Tyler Holt over Jake Cave coming out of the spring. Neither is exactly someone to fret over, but Tyler Holt is a slap hitting guy who runs. Jake Cave at least had a little bit of power to use and a tiny amount of upside. Some of the guys they picked up on waivers. Some of the guys they chose to keep on the 40-man over some other players that are seemingly way more talented.
    I think everybody's more or less on the same page with regard to Alfredo Rodriguez. A bit of a perplexing contract, but clearly they have a scouting report they really believe in. Rodriguez's contract makes Gutierrez more expensive, but in a vacuum, pretty thrilled with the signing. The day Jake Cave or Tyler Holt amount to anything, wake me up.

    I recognize an organization like the Reds has to be good around the margins, but I haven't witnessed any decsions thus far to set off any alarms. I'm probably hypersensitive to Williams's moves (and the perception of them) at present, but I remain cautiously optimistic (not that you were implying reason to be otherwise).

  20. #29
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    I look at the roster moves and cheap comes to mind but then they spend quite a bit to sign AlfRod and Gutierrez (only 1 of which makes sense). I hope this isn't a case of spendy in the wrong places, and thrifty in the wrong, too. I did read a list of top ten Yankee miL FAs and it sounded a lot like what the Reds are letting walk. Times 30 teams there should be plenty of fodder, some interesting in a marginal prospect kind of way, to replace whoever leaves, without much ado. As to stuff over performance I've seen enough Matt Maloney/Josh Smith types who had good performances in the minors but mediocre stuff that miserably failed at the major league level to not get worked up - I'd rather keep the Ariel Hernandez's and hope a light goes on but there are also quite a few Stephen Johnson's whose stuff is overrated, imo, that I won't be upset if they cut them. YRod is a curious case - I still have the suspicion there is more to that story than we are hearing.
    99% of all numbers only tell 33% of the story so when looking at the numbers remember that numbers is plural...

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  22. #30
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    They kept Tyler Holt over Jake Cave coming out of the spring. Neither is exactly someone to fret over, but Tyler Holt is a slap hitting guy who runs. Jake Cave at least had a little bit of power to use and a tiny amount of upside. Some of the guys they picked up on waivers. Some of the guys they chose to keep on the 40-man over some other players that are seemingly way more talented.
    Your Holt/Cave argument is a nice rhetorical point but I don't think it captures what happened.

    Holt wasn't "kept" over Cave. Holt was sent down to AAA on March 30. In fact, Cave was kept for several days longer and was returned to the Yanks in early April.

    The reason Holt was recalled to the Reds was because guys like Yorman were hurt and they decided Peraza needed AAA at bats. They didn't expect to carry Holt, actually sent him down.

    Holt's advantage was that he potentially could be moved back and forth to AAA. Cave couldn't. Turned out Holt kept the spot because guys like Yorman never got healthy enough to contribute.

    Wherever he winds up, Yorman needs to stay on the field or he'll be cut again.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-16-2016 at 06:07 PM.

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