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Thread: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

  1. #31
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Is is possible that they don't like Alfredo Rodriguez behind the clubhouse doors? Sometimes players get cut because they don't mesh especially if they are borderline guys.
    Hugs, smiling, and interactive Twitter accounts, don't mean winning baseball. Until this community understands that we are cursed to relive the madness.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    Is is possible that they don't like Alfredo Rodriguez behind the clubhouse doors? Sometimes players get cut because they don't mesh especially if they are borderline guys.
    Yorman?

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  5. #33
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I guess my argument is why carry relievers who walk 5+ guys per inning who are in their mid-to-late 20's over a 24-year-old toolsy outfielder, who actually seemed to have figured some things out the last time he was on the field (hit very well in Triple-A after the first few weeks of struggles in 2015 - walked as many times in spring training in 2016 as he struck out).

    Whether they've got the 400 PA or not shouldn't matter. They let him walk and then went out and said they are looking for a RHH outfielder. Now, maybe they just don't agree with me that he can be a 4th outfielder tomorrow. And I guess that's fine, but I think they are very wrong about that one.
    Well, in 8 seasons in the minors, Yorman had a 315 OBP and a 399 SLG = 714 OPS.
    Last season in AAA (2015) , his OPS was 736, which is pretty close to his career minor league record.
    What can we reasonably expect him to do offensively in the majors?

    People complained about Ludwick's last year here (2014), and I understand that, but Ludwick had an OPS of 683. I doubt Yorman could do that well in any of his first 3 seasons with the Reds.
    I am not even sure Yorman could provide the offense that Skip Schumaker gave us.. Skip at least had a decent OBP. Now maybe Yorman could outslug Skip to help make up for it, but it is hard to say.

    I think the fact that the Reds have a lot of bad relievers is not relevant. They need a 12 man pitching staff because they are so thin, and the starters do not go deep. If you boot off a bad reliever to carry Yorman, that makes the problem worse. Someone has to eat those innings.

    The fact is, the Reds can get a better backup OF off the scrap pile than Yorman would be for the next 3 years.
    Also, if Yorman does not get regular playing time on the Reds, how is he going to develop? And if he doesn't develop, why keep him?
    The Reds gave Yorman an entire year of rehab last year.. He obviously did not impress them or give them hope. This isn't a situation where the Reggie Jefferson was lost because of stupidity.
    The Reds gave Yorman a long time to earn a spot and he just didn't deliver. And if there were character issues on top of that (I really don't know but there may have been, he was suspended last year), then the smart thing is to just cut losses and move on.
    Heck, they probably should have cut him last spring.

    But I know you were high on him, so I can understand your reaction.. maybe you are right.. It will be interesting to follow his career.
    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  6. #34
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    YRod is a curious case - I still have the suspicion there is more to that story than we are hearing.
    Yes and no. I have said this before...he has always been the player that was talked about the most despite doing the least. Were there problems with this player that you never heard about? Yes. Was there some sinister incident? No. There was the suspension this summer, and many players would have simply been released at that time, but because of the amount of money invested, I am sure there was a fear that if you let him go, somehow, the light might come on, and you put up with all that crap and gave him all that money and someone else got the benefit. Tools wise, I just never saw it, and I saw him play a lot of games. Did he have some above average tools? Yes. But there was a player on almost every team you faced that had similar tools. Compared to say, Wily Mo, just not in the same solar system. If you take a look at the league top-20 lists that are put out by Baseball America usually around Oct. 1 each year, which are mostly a product of the league managers, you very rarely saw him on those lists at all. The reason was that managers are known for basing their input on what they see, not on the reputation of the player or signing bonus or draft round. And they know the ages of the players. Yet he just never did much to impress opposing managers.

    A longtime baseball man made a comment to me after watching Yorman. He said, if you don't enjoy playing the game, you are probably not going to reach your potential. A minor league player once said to me, "we have players on this (Single-A) team that believe they have already made it, and that is enough for them." When you give a kid more money than he ever dreamed of, you better be convinced that the player is hungry for something more.

    One of the problems in evaluation with this era--when stats are used so heavily to measure players--is that some people assume that if there isn't a stat to measure something, then it's either unimportant, or else all players must be equal in that area, and it just kind of cancels itself out. There is no stat that I know of that measures heart, work ethic, and desire. And it certainly isn't equal for all players.

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  8. #35
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    One of the problems in evaluation with this era--when stats are used so heavily to measure players--is that some people assume that if there isn't a stat to measure something, then it's either unimportant, or else all players must be equal in that area, and it just kind of cancels itself out. There is no stat that I know of that measures heart, work ethic, and desire. And it certainly isn't equal for all players.
    In Yorman's case the problem is he apparently had neither. Maybe for Yorman the lack of drive explains why he never posted the stats. Yet the stats-oriented folks never much liked Yorman either.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

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  10. #36
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Your Holt/Cave argument is a nice rhetorical point but I don't think it captures what happened.

    Holt wasn't "kept" over Cave. Holt was sent down to AAA on March 30. In fact, Cave was kept for several days longer and was returned to the Yanks in early April.

    The reason Holt was recalled to the Reds was because guys like Yorman were hurt and they decided Peraza needed AAA at bats. They didn't expect to carry Holt, actually sent him down.

    Holt's advantage was that he potentially could be moved back and forth to AAA. Cave couldn't. Turned out Holt kept the spot because guys like Yorman never got healthy enough to contribute.

    Wherever he winds up, Yorman needs to stay on the field or he'll be cut again.
    Holt, regardless of the reason he came up, stayed up for the entire season despite being incredibly unproductive for 200 plate appearances. He didn't hit righties. He didn't hit lefties. He wasn't a base running threat. He has no power. He could play center field I guess. What on Earth was he doing on the 25-man roster all season? He brought basically nothing. All. Year. There was no one else worth giving a look-see during the season?

    It's not really a big deal in the long run. But it's a very curious one.

  11. #37
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Holt, regardless of the reason he came up, stayed up for the entire season despite being incredibly unproductive for 200 plate appearances. He didn't hit righties. He didn't hit lefties. He wasn't a base running threat. He has no power. He could play center field I guess. What on Earth was he doing on the 25-man roster all season? He brought basically nothing. All. Year. There was no one else worth giving a look-see during the season?

    It's not really a big deal in the long run. But it's a very curious one.
    It's not curious at all. The Reds were thin in the outfield most of the season due to a variety of factors. Schebler sent down. Hamilton with injuries. Yorman injured. Winker still developing. When Peraza came up, mostly needed at SS.

    So Holt who plays all three outfield positions was used.

    The Reds gave many outfielders a "look see". Selsky, Iribarren, Waldrop, Kivlehan. Peraza a bit. Schebler got a full time opportunity when RF opened up. Duvall was unproven, got his shot.

    But Yorman was the logical guy to get OF, including CF, time off the bench. He was out of options, Reds must have expected to use him. Turned out that he was hurt and deemed unavailable.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-16-2016 at 11:24 PM.

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  13. #38
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    It's not curious at all. The Reds were thin in the outfield most of the season due to a variety of factors. Schebler sent down. Hamilton with injuries. Yorman injured. Winker still developing. When Peraza came up, mostly needed at SS.

    So Holt who plays all three outfield positions was used.

    The Reds gave many outfielders a "look see". Selsky, Iribarren, Waldrop, Kivlehan. Peraza a bit. Schebler got a full time opportunity when RF opened up. Duvall was unproven, got his shot.

    But Yorman was the logical guy to get OF, including CF, time off the bench. He was out of options, Reds must have expected to use him. Turned out that he was hurt and deemed unavailable.
    The Reds eventually gave some guys look-sees, but at no point did they not also keep Holt on the roster.

  14. #39
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by UPRedsFan View Post
    Yorman?
    Oops..yes Yorman
    Hugs, smiling, and interactive Twitter accounts, don't mean winning baseball. Until this community understands that we are cursed to relive the madness.

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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The Reds eventually gave some guys look-sees, but at no point did they not also keep Holt on the roster.
    If the Reds had more depth in CF, they might have dropped Holt. He was a safety net for CF.

    Holt's position had been slated for Yorman, backup OF/CF.

    They didn't anticipate that Yorman would miss the MLB season. So they didn't have enough CF depth.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-17-2016 at 10:54 AM.

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  17. #41
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    If the Reds had more depth in CF, they might have dropped Holt. He was a safety net for CF.

    Holt's position had been slated for Yorman, backup OF/CF.

    They didn't anticipate that Yorman would miss the MLB season. So they didn't have enough CF depth.
    They could have found someone. Minor league trade that would have cost them next to nothing. The waiver wire (to be fair, I don't recall every name that came across it, but I'm sure there was someone who played center field). Not really a big deal at all, just a strange one that he's they guy they chose to stick with all season long.

  18. #42
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    They could have found someone. Minor league trade that would have cost them next to nothing. The waiver wire (to be fair, I don't recall every name that came across it, but I'm sure there was someone who played center field). Not really a big deal at all, just a strange one that he's they guy they chose to stick with all season long.
    Why did it matter? Holt didn't cost much, and the club had already decided they were scuttling the season before it ever began.
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  20. #43
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    I may be reaching, but sometimes management chooses the other extreme just to make a point -- If it came down to Yrod and Holt ...maybe management decided they would go with the hard worker and sort've make a statement. The last thing a manager wants to manage is the 25th guy on the team and Yrod was kind of looking like he might be that guy --so to make life easier they pick someone they know won't cause a problem cause you ain't going anywhere anyway.

    We used to have a saying at a company that I worked for that you'd eventually get promoted if you did nothing because they had so many issues they looked for people they couldn't throw stones at --so there were a host of people that got promoted on the basis of being quiet and staying off the radar. It's ok to have a couple of those when you're drowning, but Yrod was the 25th guy and he was the "kind" of guy who could get you fired.

    Looking back -- I think it would've been better to let him dominate a league before promotion -I know he had a timetable, but he also had no hx of success. It would not shock me if he puts up some decent looking years in triple A especially if he goes west PCL.

  21. #44
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Why did it matter? Holt didn't cost much, and the club had already decided they were scuttling the season before it ever began.
    Agonizing over the stats of 25th guys (maybe 26th, next year) is a time-honored Redszone exercise. In order to engage fruitfully in the exercise it is imperative that one not consult the rosters of other ballclubs to assess the stats of their 25th guys.

    It's incredible, but every year it exposes the fact that Reds' GMs are unfit for the job.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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  23. #45
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Why did it matter? Holt didn't cost much, and the club had already decided they were scuttling the season before it ever began.
    ....because major league playing time is a valuable thing? The reds are in the process of sorting out who can do what. Playing time in and of itself is a limited valuable resource. They shouldn't be handing it out w/out a real purpose. Once the recognized that Holt couldn't do anything interesting, they should have churned that spot on the roster and see if they couldn't come up with something better.

    FWIW the same thing is true of Ivan De Jesus....If they had churned De Jesus in July they could have figured out if Hernan Iribarren was really anything interesting or not. Can he really hit that well? Can he really play everywhere on the field? is he really the later day incarnation of Tony Phillips? As it is...well he hit a solid 300 in 45 at bats....as a 32 year old....in September. I don't know how to evaluate that. Can he be a useful sub or not? Wouldn't you like another 50 at bats to make that decision on? Dang, Iribarren spent some time in CENTER. He could have taken Holt's place on the roster.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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