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Thread: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

  1. #46
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Why did it matter? Holt didn't cost much, and the club had already decided they were scuttling the season before it ever began.
    In the grand scheme of things, as I've said multiple times, it's not much of a big deal. It's just another piece to the puzzle of moves that I don't quite understand the organization making. But, dfs does lay out a decent set of reasoning that is similar to my thought process on the subject as it relates directly to Tyler Holt.

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  3. #47
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Holt wasn't an end of the bench 25th guy. He got 208 PAs. Dejesus 243 PAs. That's over 450 PAs from AAAA scrubs. Upgrading those throw away spots with a competent player is like upgrading an every day position. The Reds lose a lot of ground on the competition with the scrubs on the bench. A competent two to three win player who can get regular PAs by playing all over and pushing these guys off the roster would be a huge upgrade for this team. I still think that is the way to get the most value out of Peraza. They can find a 2 win SS and the team's overall record won't be changed much. Upgrading these spots upgrades the overall team IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  4. #48
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    In the grand scheme of things, as I've said multiple times, it's not much of a big deal. It's just another piece to the puzzle of moves that I don't quite understand the organization making. But, dfs does lay out a decent set of reasoning that is similar to my thought process on the subject as it relates directly to Tyler Holt.
    Dfs says Iribarren should have had a greater chance. I don't think the Reds viewed him as anything other than a good AAA vet. Many AAA veterans seem promising to fans, their stats look good, but teams often just keep them for a short term fix and then move them.

    On a team that used 32 pitchers (LOL, including Holt), I think it's ok to have some stability on the bench, in the absence of good alternatives. If Yorman would have been able to play, then things likely would have been different.

    I agree with mth that the bench needs a meaningful upgrade, a change in philosophy. Whether Holt or a rotation of waiver wire pickups, there was no answer last year, they need real answers on the bench going forward.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-18-2016 at 08:49 PM.

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  6. #49
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Dfs says Iribarren should have had a greater chance. I don't think the Reds viewed him as anything other than a good AAA vet. Many AAA veterans seem promising to fans, their stats look good, but teams often just keep them for a short term fix and then move them.

    On a team that used 32 pitchers (LOL, including Holt), I think it's ok to have some stability on the bench, in the absence of good alternatives. If Yorman would have been able to play, then things likely would have been different.

    I agree with mth that the bench needs a meaningful upgrade, a change in philosophy. Whether Holt or a rotation of waiver wire pickups, there was no answer last year, they need real answers on the bench going forward.
    Iribarren is basically an older, LH-hitting version of DeJesus without the pedigree.

    If someone doesn't like Ivan Jr., I don't know why they would like Hernan.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    ......, I think it's ok to have some stability on the bench, in the absence of good alternatives. If Yorman would have been able to play, then things likely would have been different.
    I would absolutely agree with this on a team that was going somewhere. Yeah, If you've got racehorses and you're expected to win 96 games and everybody likes steady Eddy over there in the corner even though he might not be able to hit the curve ball....yeah. Ok. Don't rock the boat.

    This team on the other hand was going no place. You don't get stability in that case unless you produce. You don't like the 32 year old guy then Steve Selkslky the 26 year old had 9 plate appearances before September. It's not hard to find guys on the Louisville roster that they could have churned Holt or DeJesus for w/out losing a beat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    Iribarren is basically an older, LH-hitting version of DeJesus without the pedigree.

    If someone doesn't like Ivan Jr., I don't know why they would like Hernan.
    Cause he hits? I mean...I said...the guy is 32 years old...I understand, it's most likely fools gold, but wouldn't you want to find out if maybe he's figured something out? 327/380/420 in Louisville playing 2B-3B and all three OF spots and the reds are getting crap off the bench and you can't take a look because.....because loyalty?

    Loyalty to your horses is a great trait, but the reds were being loyal to mules. I really hate to say it, but that's the sign of a bad organization.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  8. #51
    Bats fan extraordinaire! HalKing's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    I liked Irribarren. A great Corky Miller-esque AAAA veteran. And I was happy to see the Reds reward his excellent season at Louisville with the proverbial cup of coffee. But losing him is realistically no big deal. As for YRod, this guy will likely never get his head out of his ass. Someone jokingly mentioned his next team being in the KBO.... I am pretty sure even in Korea they expect guys to show up for work every day and at least put on a good act as if they want to be there. With YRod you just don't get that. He's no greater loss to the Reds organization than Waldrop, IMHO.

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  10. #52
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    What's interesting about the discussion is that Holt, YRod, Irribaren, all were cut from the 40. Selsky remains whether he will stick in the bigs next season is dubious IMO.

    Point being that looking forward, the whole discussion is moot, none of the options being discussed are in the team's plans (Selsky still possible).

    With Schebler and soon Winker ready to contribute, with the Reds possibly getting a veteran outfielder to help out, the choices next season should be much better.

    Which is a sign of rebuilding progress. The outfield, I think, will look much better (and younger) next season. The infield has already been improved considering Senzel, Peraza, Herrera, Suarez, possibly Alf Rodriguez.

    Catching still a health issue for Mes so less clear.

    So whatever people thought of last year, hopefully we're not having a similar debate next year, with an improved outfield younger, affordable and productive. Including backups.
    Last edited by Kc61; 11-19-2016 at 01:47 PM.

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  12. #53
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    With Schebler and soon Winker ready to contribute, with the Reds possibly getting a veteran outfielder to help out, the choices next season should be much better.
    With health, the quartet of Winker, Schebler, Duvall, and Hamilton should be decent. I'd argue they'd rate higher, except Duvall will likely receive too many ABs with little production. Still, according to fWAR, they should out-produce the OF of any Red team since 2013 and be one of Cincinnati's three best since 2010.

    Moving forward, this should give the kids enough time to develop. First, obviously, is Winker. Then Aquino, who could well be better than anyone in the Red pipeline.

    Hamilton will eventually get expensive, so they'll need to find/ draft/ develop a CF. (Though Peraza may be a good choice there if SS doesn't pan out.) Trammell, Friedl, and company may help mitigate that need, but again, they're a long way away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The infield has already been improved considering Senzel, Peraza, Herrera, Suarez, possibly Alf Rodriguez.
    If you're talking future production, yes. In the meantime, one could argue incremental improvement, depending on playing time. Votto's glove should get better, elevating his fWAR. Ditto Suarez over at 3B-- he may well find quite a bit of power too, as he fills out. Increased playing time for Herrera at 2B should mean better overall production from a position that was 0.2 above replacement last season; that said, the SS position could well lose quite a bit of WAR.

    In the future, Senzel should push Suarez to an offensive-minded utility guy. That alone would improve the team by three wins. (As Suarez takes the spots of below replacement-level -0.5 WAR journeymen Pacheco and DeJesus with somewhere between 0.5 - 1.0 fWAR, while Senzel becomes a 3.0 - 4.0 fWAR guy in lieu of Suarez's 1.6.)

    The duo of Cozart and Phillips have provided an average of 3.6 fWAR since 2013. I suspect the duo of Herrera and Peraza will do about the same. It depends on how much power Herrera will show in the majors (and how much was PCL mirage) and whether Peraza can continue to hit at around a .300 clip while displaying at least a league average glove for SS. If not, Cincinnati will need another SS. Badly.

    Votto will Votto, at least for another couple of years.

    As to the future, Rodriguez, to me, is a sunk cost. Therefore, SS remains a major question mark. 2B is in a bit better shape, as Herrera and Shedric Long are close enough (and have produced enough) to be interesting. 1B has little in the way of true prospects, though Schebler/ Duvall/ Winker could move there as other OF progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Catching still a health issue for Mes so less clear.
    Rocco is the key to playing for a wildcard in 2017. If he channels his 2014, the Red lineup looks formidable, with power, patience, BA, and speed all present in multiple hitters. If not, the lineup becomes too dependent on Duvall to supply pop.

    Going forward, Barnhart's a placeholder, but some combination of Okey, Brown, Stephenson, and others may help. They are all, however, a long way off. Catching depth in the low minors is good, but it's still three or four years from helping.

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  14. #54
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spor...role/86156464/

    My guess is this is why Holt kept his spot after he was added as an emergency fill-in. In an ugly first half, he helped keep things light in the clubhouse.

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  16. #55
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc. Scott View Post
    http://www.cincinnati.com/story/spor...role/86156464/

    My guess is this is why Holt kept his spot after he was added as an emergency fill-in. In an ugly first half, he helped keep things light in the clubhouse.
    That may have something to do with it, but more likely it was because there wasn't anybody better in the minors.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  17. #56
    Member texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Has Yorman signed with anyone yet?

  18. #57
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Has Yorman signed with anyone yet?
    Not according to Baseball America's tracker.

    So far Ronald Bueno to Chicago (AL), Ty Washington to Miami, Tyler Holt to LA, and Jermaine Curtis to Oakland are the only minor league signings of Reds players from 2016.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

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  20. #58
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Irribarren of course is signed to a Reds minor league contract on the hope that he might get some playing time in Lousiville. I don't think he's a major league caliber player either, but the reds don't know if he could be useful off the bench because Holt and DeJesus are going to steady up any day now.

    I LIKE loyalty. I generally think loyalty is a good thing for organizations to show their people. In this case....not so much. They job of the reds front office and manager is to sort through who can play and who can't. If they can't play don't invest any more playing time in them.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  21. #59
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    and DeJesus
    Oh I forgot about him too, he wasn't included in the tracker (I guess cause he spent the whole season on the MLB roster). He signed a minor league deal with Milwaukee.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

  22. #60
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    Re: Yorman a free agent according to milb website

    The Reds clearly kept Holt on the 2016 roster all season because during a lost year, at least it was fun that the Reds had two players that looked like identical twins (Holt/Cozart).


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