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Thread: "Parental" advice

  1. #46
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Life is that simple? Wow, who knew...other than jojo that is.

    Do you have kids?
    Yes, I do. And life is that simple.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #47
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Yes, I do. And life is that simple.
    There's no point in arguing with you, but I will say, stuff comes up, that's how promises get broken. When stuff happens most people tend to be understanding because we've all been there.

    But, I'm not a teenage girl from an 80s sitcom so I don't make people make promises. I also take things on a case by case basis. I would never want to say the words "You promised!" to someone. Comes off as really petty.

    Personally, generally with stuff like this that's a year out it's more along the lines of "as of now I plan on being there, but life happens." If someone pressured me to promise I would attend something like this I would just say no, even if I wanted to go.

    If anything, I hope this girl learned a valuable lesson. And that's not "stick to your promises" it's "don't make promises when someone is pressuring you to do so," and if someone is saying "promise me" just say no and move on. Generally if someone is trying to pressure you to do something, take a step back and evaluate the situation, something is probably off.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  4. #48
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    There's no point in arguing with you, but I will say, stuff comes up, that's how promises get broken. When stuff happens most people tend to be understanding because we've all been there.

    But, I'm not a teenage girl from an 80s sitcom so I don't make people make promises. I also take things on a case by case basis. I would never want to say the words "You promised!" to someone. Comes off as really petty.

    Personally, generally with stuff like this that's a year out it's more along the lines of "as of now I plan on being there, but life happens." If someone pressured me to promise I would attend something like this I would just say no, even if I wanted to go.

    If anything, I hope this girl learned a valuable lesson. And that's not "stick to your promises" it's "don't make promises when someone is pressuring you to do so," and if someone is saying "promise me" just say no and move on. Generally if someone is trying to pressure you to do something, take a step back and evaluate the situation, something is probably off.
    And again, this isn't a case of stuff comes up. It's a case of making excuses and breaking one's word when having months to plan a way to avoid breaking it. And it's flipping weird you've steadfastly decided she was creepily coerced and is a hero for breaking her word. I'm kinda thinking this is actually more about you than her.

    And ya, what a bunch of rat bastards for having a strong desire to include her in family stuff...talkin' about something being off if ever there were an example.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #49
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    And again, this isn't a case of stuff comes up. It's a case of making excuses and breaking one's word when having months to plan a way to avoid breaking it. And it's flipping weird you've steadfastly decided she was creepily coerced and is a hero for breaking her word. I'm kinda thinking this is actually more about you than her.

    And ya, what a bunch of rat bastards for having a strong desire to include her in family stuff...talkin' about something being off if ever there were an example.
    I was moreso just talking more meta-wise about promises.

    This is certainly a good example of why you don't make promises, though.

    I don't know any of these people, Chip seems like a nice dude. From what has been laid out to us I think it's all a little odd, though. This isn't her family, it's not her boyfriend, it's her mom's boyfriend.

    I'm not making her out to be a hero. Chip laid out what's going on in her life right now. Sounds like a tough situation for an 18 year old. She's trying to scrape money together for college because her scholarship fell through and her bio father and grandparents stole her college fund money. That is the "stuff happens" I was referring to. When I think of "excuses" I'm thinking more along the lines of "well dang, Chip, I have a hair app scheduled that day" not "I just found out I'm broke and I didn't get a scholarship I was banking on and desperately need money for college...I am prioritizing that over your nephews wedding, your nephew who I have met twice, in Iowa right now."

    As I said, she learned a lesson...don't make promises.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  6. #50
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    There's no point in arguing with you, but I will say, stuff comes up, that's how promises get broken. When stuff happens most people tend to be understanding because we've all been there.

    But, I'm not a teenage girl from an 80s sitcom so I don't make people make promises. I also take things on a case by case basis. I would never want to say the words "You promised!" to someone. Comes off as really petty.

    Personally, generally with stuff like this that's a year out it's more along the lines of "as of now I plan on being there, but life happens." If someone pressured me to promise I would attend something like this I would just say no, even if I wanted to go.

    If anything, I hope this girl learned a valuable lesson. And that's not "stick to your promises" it's "don't make promises when someone is pressuring you to do so," and if someone is saying "promise me" just say no and move on. Generally if someone is trying to pressure you to do something, take a step back and evaluate the situation, something is probably off.
    Yeah. The mistake is in agreeing to do something out of pressure or without thinking through the commitment, something that is very easy and understandable for an 18 year old to do; especially, when that agreement is being put upon them by a non-family member. Not many 18 year olds are mature or confident enough to politely affirm themselves with a "Thank you but no".

    In an ideal world, we'd all be a little more empathetic with each other and we'd err on the side of having a conversation about why someone has changed their decision, rather than taking the more combative and simplistic "YOU PROMISED. YOU SAID. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS" approach. Sometimes, people have good reasons for canceling or changing their plans. There is a valid scenario where the daughter decides not to go, the mom's boyfriend accepts the reasons for the cancelation, and any perceived "slights" or issues that arise from the cancelation are handled with more conversations ("Nephew, she had wanted to go but her plans changed. She sends her well wishes for you and the bride"). Making a kid cry and feel terrible so that you don't have to feel uncomfortable for 15 seconds as you explain her absence to the bride/groom feels like an unfair trade-off.

    The context-less attachment to the idea of promises reminds me of the different kinds of teachers I had in high school and college. You had the teachers who refused to let students use the bathroom or lectured them for having to leave class early for a baseball game out of, they would probably rationalize, the principle that "students need to learn to be studious or else they'll fail life!". Then you had teachers who would let you use the bathroom twice in 50 minutes if you needed to and who smiled and wished you a good game as you left early for the bus. I always thought that the controlling teachers were pretty insecure and not very good at commanding respect through their actual teaching. By the time I got to college, it was actually sad to see professors try desperately to control 22 year olds and fail. Conversely, it was awesome to see smart teachers treat students with respect and get tenfold respect in return.

    I remember, one year, I had a professor flat out refuse to give me a make up test for an exam I missed due to jury duty. She viewed the situation it as 'simple' as jojo views life, which is to say that she believed any/all context didn't matter. I was going to have 1/4th of my grade turned into a 0 because I was chosen to serve on a jury. In court, they asked if we were having any troubles at work over our jury commitment, so I told the judge about my situation and he gave me a funny look and said "Seriously?" Then he asked me to give him her name and he'd call her personally. That same year, I had to get a major emergency surgery the week of finals and, the night I got home from the hospital, I was hopped up on vicodin writing the 4th draft of a term paper that just wasn't coming together with my fogged brain. I emailed the messy draft to my teacher, who knew I had undergone surgery, and he wrote back "Take care of self before institution. Rest and recover and then send me a draft." That same professor loved to fail students who didn't put the work in and he didn't take nonsense when people came in with lame ball excuses. Context matters. You can enforce rules and keep order (and impart valuable lessons about treating commitments with respect and thoughtfulness) without clinging to extreme and over-simplified legalism.
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt
    Guys, just stop arguing with him. He will literally never stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    Larry is living the role of the underachiever who's still struggling to get a life so he spends hours upon hours posting worthless bilge on the 'net
    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!
    I think those are just two separate quotes and not meant to be taken together.

  7. #51
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Once young adults get past 21, they come back to you. Like the Twain quote: "When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.

    My kids are 29, 26, and 24 now. I like them a whole lot better than when they were 19, 16, and 14. My goals through those times were to keep them out of jail, not pregnant, not hooked on drugs, and remain on speaking terms. We did all right.
    The motel of lost companions
    Waits with heated pool and bar

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  9. #52
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    I also like this little gem: "I'm also of the opinion that she has a problem with my family who she met a few years ago when they came here for a weekend. I was assured by her mom that that wasn't the case and that she likes them. However, that's going to be a difficult thing to sell to my family since that happened last year. Various groups of my family have came out to visit me four times in the almost 18 years I've lived here. I'm guessing this will give them less incentive to come out to visit us."

    So, his extended family might curtail further visits because they perceive that his girlfriend's teenage daughter they met a few years ago might not like them and this is the icing on the cake? Man, that's some major league passive aggression working right there. No wonder this girl doesn't want anything to do with this whole clown show.

  10. #53
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by BernieCarbo View Post
    I also like this little gem: "I'm also of the opinion that she has a problem with my family who she met a few years ago when they came here for a weekend. I was assured by her mom that that wasn't the case and that she likes them. However, that's going to be a difficult thing to sell to my family since that happened last year. Various groups of my family have came out to visit me four times in the almost 18 years I've lived here. I'm guessing this will give them less incentive to come out to visit us."

    So, his extended family might curtail further visits because they perceive that his girlfriend's teenage daughter they met a few years ago might not like them and this is the icing on the cake? Man, that's some major league passive aggression working right there. No wonder this girl doesn't want anything to do with this whole clown show.
    15 year old girls are pretty powerful.
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt
    Guys, just stop arguing with him. He will literally never stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    Larry is living the role of the underachiever who's still struggling to get a life so he spends hours upon hours posting worthless bilge on the 'net
    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!
    I think those are just two separate quotes and not meant to be taken together.

  11. #54
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    Yeah. The mistake is in agreeing to do something out of pressure or without thinking through the commitment, something that is very easy and understandable for an 18 year old to do; especially, when that agreement is being put upon them by a non-family member. Not many 18 year olds are mature or confident enough to politely affirm themselves with a "Thank you but no".

    In an ideal world, we'd all be a little more empathetic with each other and we'd err on the side of having a conversation about why someone has changed their decision, rather than taking the more combative and simplistic "YOU PROMISED. YOU SAID. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS" approach. Sometimes, people have good reasons for canceling or changing their plans. There is a valid scenario where the daughter decides not to go, the mom's boyfriend accepts the reasons for the cancelation, and any perceived "slights" or issues that arise from the cancelation are handled with more conversations ("Nephew, she had wanted to go but her plans changed. She sends her well wishes for you and the bride"). Making a kid cry and feel terrible so that you don't have to feel uncomfortable for 15 seconds as you explain her absence to the bride/groom feels like an unfair trade-off.

    The context-less attachment to the idea of promises reminds me of the different kinds of teachers I had in high school and college. You had the teachers who refused to let students use the bathroom or lectured them for having to leave class early for a baseball game out of, they would probably rationalize, the principle that "students need to learn to be studious or else they'll fail life!". Then you had teachers who would let you use the bathroom twice in 50 minutes if you needed to and who smiled and wished you a good game as you left early for the bus. I always thought that the controlling teachers were pretty insecure and not very good at commanding respect through their actual teaching. By the time I got to college, it was actually sad to see professors try desperately to control 22 year olds and fail. Conversely, it was awesome to see smart teachers treat students with respect and get tenfold respect in return.

    I remember, one year, I had a professor flat out refuse to give me a make up test for an exam I missed due to jury duty. She viewed the situation it as 'simple' as jojo views life, which is to say that she believed any/all context didn't matter. I was going to have 1/4th of my grade turned into a 0 because I was chosen to serve on a jury. In court, they asked if we were having any troubles at work over our jury commitment, so I told the judge about my situation and he gave me a funny look and said "Seriously?" Then he asked me to give him her name and he'd call her personally. That same year, I had to get a major emergency surgery the week of finals and, the night I got home from the hospital, I was hopped up on vicodin writing the 4th draft of a term paper that just wasn't coming together with my fogged brain. I emailed the messy draft to my teacher, who knew I had undergone surgery, and he wrote back "Take care of self before institution. Rest and recover and then send me a draft." That same professor loved to fail students who didn't put the work in and he didn't take nonsense when people came in with lame ball excuses. Context matters. You can enforce rules and keep order (and impart valuable lessons about treating commitments with respect and thoughtfulness) without clinging to extreme and over-simplified legalism.
    After you become fatigued from continually kicking a toddler-sized straw baby in the privates, please apologize for grossly mischaracterizing my position..... pointing out a truism underpinning living a successful, fulfilling life of purpose and happiness in a context in which it applies 100% is not the raw material you can use to build a ramp upon which to climb and crow. Nowhere did I say context isn't important. I'm merely pointing out that many of you are making excuses by fantasizing a context that lets you rationalize away what most rational adults admit is poor behavior. Teen angst aint an excuse for habitually breaking one's word. Sorry. It just aint and you whooping on straw babies neither makes this view simplistic nor your view enlightened.

    Frankly, you're arguing for reinforcing behavior that increases the chances of one leading a lower quality life. Yah! Thats so enlightened!
    Last edited by jojo; 06-01-2017 at 08:13 PM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #55
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    I'd say most rational adults would look at the adult man in the situation and wonder what his obsession is with projecting all of his weird family hangups on an 18 year old girl. He is still guiltling her for a nebulous "vibe" that his family got from her when she was a 15 year old girl, which she clarified was not intended, and hinting that he believes it will be the reason his family, in the future, visits him less. He is already deciding she is harming his relationship with his family. That is weird. And not behavior that exemplifies how to live that successful, happy life you wish for the daughter.
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt
    Guys, just stop arguing with him. He will literally never stop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray
    Larry is living the role of the underachiever who's still struggling to get a life so he spends hours upon hours posting worthless bilge on the 'net
    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo!
    I think those are just two separate quotes and not meant to be taken together.

  13. #56
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    15 year old girls are pretty powerful.
    Just ask Tad Cummins.

  14. #57
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    I'd say most rational adults would look at the adult man in the situation and wonder what his obsession is with projecting all of his weird family hangups on an 18 year old girl. He is still guiltling her for a nebulous "vibe" that his family got from her when she was a 15 year old girl, which she clarified was not intended, and hinting that he believes it will be the reason his family, in the future, visits him less. He is already deciding she is harming his relationship with his family. That is weird. And not behavior that exemplifies how to live that successful, happy life you wish for the daughter.
    No. A judgmental adult would construe his motivations in the most negative light in order to validate their own predilection for rationalizing poor choices. What's weird is that you continue to argue that it's awesome to break promises and it's weird to hold your daughter to high standards, a thing which BTW has been scientifically proven to lead to more success, happiness and health.

    But ya, you keep at it.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #58
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    No. A judgmental adult would construe his motivations in the most negative light in order to validate their own predilection for rationalizing poor choices. What's weird is that you continue to argue that it's awesome to break promises and it's weird to hold your daughter to high standards, a thing which BTW has been scientifically proven to lead to more success, happiness and health.

    But ya, you keep at it.
    It's not his daughter, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    No. A judgmental adult would construe his motivations in the most negative light in order to validate their own predilection for rationalizing poor choices. What's weird is that you continue to argue that it's awesome to break promises and it's weird to hold your daughter to high standards, a thing which BTW has been scientifically proven to lead to more success, happiness and health.

    But ya, you keep at it.
    It's not his daughter, though.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  16. #59
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    It's not his daughter, though.
    So your point is it's not a good idea to hold her to high standards because it's not his daughter? Heck, we try to hold each other to high standards around here all the time and most of us have never met. There's a thread about this that's active right now.

  17. #60
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: "Parental" advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    So your point is it's not a good idea to hold her to high standards because it's not his daughter? Heck, we try to hold each other to high standards around here all the time and most of us have never met. There's a thread about this that's active right now.
    No, I am just correcting an error. Jojo said daughter, and that's not correct.

    With that said, I do think there is a difference between lecturing your own children and someone else's.
    What would you say.....ya do here?


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