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Thread: Hurricane Harvey

  1. #16
    Make America Stupid Again RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    I'm sorry, if I seemed to downplay the ongoing tragedy, but you wrote this. I don't agree. I think, people will go back to their jobs and houses once the waters recede and things are cleaned up.
    Exactly right.
    Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

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  3. #17
    Member Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    It's a generational event that isn't generational now with global warming.

    People will leave. Many things won't be rebuilt. It's the same decision making process you saw in New Orleans. Why rebuild knowing it's going to happen again?

    The way the city is laid out has invited this. It will be vulnerable to this sort of storm always.

    This was published last year, look how prescient it looks now:

    https://projects.propublica.org/houston-cypress/

    Boomtown, Flood Town

    Climate change will bring more frequent and fierce rainstorms to cities like Houston. But unchecked development remains a priority in the famously un-zoned city, creating short-term economic gains for some while increasing flood risks for everyone.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

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  5. #18
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    It's a generational event that isn't generational now with global warming.

    People will leave. Many things won't be rebuilt. It's the same decision making process you saw in New Orleans. Why rebuild knowing it's going to happen again?

    The way the city is laid out has invited this. It will be vulnerable to this sort of storm always.

    This was published last year, look how prescient it looks now:

    https://projects.propublica.org/houston-cypress/
    The problem with Harvey is that it has been such a slow moving storm. That has nothing to do with climate change. This storm is not about climate change.

  6. #19
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    I'm sorry, if I seemed to downplay the ongoing tragedy, but you wrote this. I don't agree. I think, people will go back to their jobs and houses once the waters recede and things are cleaned up.
    Yep. It's a coastal city, and the coast is always a hot spot for development. Plus, they already have the infrastructure to support the shipping and oil industries. People will be back quickly. The population of the city proper will go down because people will decide to rebuild in the suburbs in the short term, but Houston will be back to normal again.

    Plus, it's just a few miles from Galveston, so it isn't like hurricanes don't happen there. This is a once in a century event, and they'll deal with it. And just like in Galveston, the next time they will be even better prepared. I mean, 8000 died in Galveston, and this time 9 people died.

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  8. #20
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Quote Originally Posted by BernieCarbo View Post
    this time 9 people died.
    So far. It's still supposed to get worse there before it gets better last I checked.

  9. #21
    Overton Window Breaker WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    For the record, you can't typically tie one specific weather event to global warming. You have to look at the overall trend. And if this storm is any indication, that trend isn't going to be pretty.

    The notable thing about this storm is the rapid development. That only happens when the conditions are just right. And global climate change models predict the type of conditions that drove that rapid development of this hurricane. Whether that's coincidence or a sign of something more ominous remains to be seen. We'll need a lot more data points. Small sample size and all that.
    Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes. -- Mahatma Gandhi

  10. #22
    Member BernieCarbo's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    So far. It's still supposed to get worse there before it gets better last I checked.
    Obviously, but it will still be far less than the thousands in the past.

  11. #23
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    The problem with Harvey is that it has been such a slow moving storm. That has nothing to do with climate change. This storm is not about climate change.
    See deaf, tone.

  12. #24
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Climate change can effect storms like Harvey:

    It’s possible that global warming contributed to Harvey “stalling” near the Texas coast, due to “‘stationary’ summer weather patterns” that Mann argued global warming may contribute to. (He cited a recent paper in Nature about it.) This stalling is one of the reasons Harvey has become so dangerous: It’s expected to stay in the area for days, blasting the region with literally feet of rainfall.

    “In conclusion, while we cannot say climate change ‘caused’ hurricane Harvey (that is an ill-posed question), we can say that it exacerbate several characteristics of the storm in a way that greatly increased the risk of damage and loss of life,” Mann wrote. “Climate change worsened the impact of Hurricane Harvey.”
    As well:

    There are essentially two global warming mechanisms at play here, according to Mann. First, sea levels in the Houston region have risen by more than half a foot over the past few decades due to global warming. That obviously makes it much more likely for an area to flood.

    The second — and more complicated — factor is the amount of moisture in the air. As Mann explained, the rising temperatures in the region add up to 1C to 1.5C higher temperatures than average a few decades ago. Based on the Clausius-Clapeyron equation, Mann calculated that amounts to roughly 3 to 5 percent more moisture in the atmosphere — which means more rain.

    “That large amount of moisture meant the potential for much greater rainfalls and greater flooding,” he noted.
    https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...global-warming

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  14. #25
    Member Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    http://ktla.com/2017/08/27/most-home...ood-insurance/

    Most Homes in Tropical Storm Harvey’s Path Don’t Have Flood Insurance

    Figures from the National Flood Insurance Program show that only 15% of homes in Harris County, which includes Houston, have flood insurance, while only 20% of homes in Nueces County, where the coastal city of Corpus Christie is located, are covered. Coverage rates are higher in the area’s flood zones, but many homes still aren’t covered.

    “If the homeowner is not required to buy flood insurance by their mortgage lender, they often chose not to,” said Michael Barry, spokesman for the Insurance Information Institute, a consumer education group funded by the insurance industry.
    Probably will all turn out fine
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  15. #26
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    http://ktla.com/2017/08/27/most-home...ood-insurance/

    Most Homes in Tropical Storm Harvey’s Path Don’t Have Flood Insurance



    Probably will all turn out fine
    This is the thing that gets missed in these stories- we'll hear how bad Allstate and State Farm are, and the people wanting money never carried flood insurance. They'll sue everybody but never take blame in their own fault of not buying it.

  16. #27
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Climate change can effect storms like Harvey:



    As well:



    https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...global-warming
    The left wing media is going nuts over this. No question about it. Our own resident meteorologist put it pretty well:

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    For the record, you can't typically tie one specific weather event to global warming. You have to look at the overall trend. And if this storm is any indication, that trend isn't going to be pretty.

    The notable thing about this storm is the rapid development. That only happens when the conditions are just right. And global climate change models predict the type of conditions that drove that rapid development of this hurricane. Whether that's coincidence or a sign of something more ominous remains to be seen. We'll need a lot more data points. Small sample size and all that.

  17. #28
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Seems like there's probably a different board more suited for this particular discussion...

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  19. #29
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Seems like there's probably a different board more suited for this particular discussion...
    It's sad that science is something that should be discussed on a political board.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    Wonderful Monds (08-29-2017)

  21. #30
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Hurricane Harvey

    There's certainly not a pattern of hurricanes like this occuring:

    Harvey is the first Category 4 hurricane to make landfall in the United States since Hurricane Charley in 2004.
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/25/us/hur...vey/index.html


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