Turn Off Ads?
Page 5 of 31 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 456

Thread: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

  1. #61
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    18,992

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Man you are looking at this with the glass half full attitude. I watched the game and came out thinking the Browns are this bad, and likely to be bad for a while. Kiser may or may not be a good QB, but when accuracy is the issue, you are going to struggle in the NFL.

    Remember when they drafted a noodle arm QB to play in Cleveland in the 3rd round? Sure would be nice to have used that pick on a CB or WR or S, or LB, or any other position on the field.

    So for three 1st round picks this year they have Miles Garrett who hasn't played a down, a developmental TE who is raw as can be, and Jabril Peppers. I will leave Peppers at that.

    Where are their past first round picks?

    The Browns will continue to be the Browns until two things happen. First of all they need to find a QB, probably should have used a high pick two years ago or even this past draft to get a QB. Secondly they need to start making better use of their draft picks. The Browns have had a plethora of picks over the past 5 years, and have found a way to screw them up.
    How many WRs did Cleveland draft this year? A ton and they still didn't have one on the field who could catch the ball.

    I know Cleveland fans are looking forward to all these draft picks but that'll only mean something if they draft well. And it'll surely mean another period of rebuilding.

    I'm beginning to question Hue Jackson's eye for talent. He thought Carson Palmer was worth a King's Ransom when he was coaching the Oakland Raiders and now he's pinning his coaching life on a 21 yr old who has trouble with the 2 most important skills for an NFL QB, recognition of defenses and accuracy.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #62
    Member Redsfaithful's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bexley, OH
    Posts
    7,764

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Any positive signs?
    I didn't see any. Sorry man. It was weird in that I didn't come out of it with any new optimism for the Bengals. Their problems still looked glaring (run game, offensive line), the Browns were just bad enough that it didn't seem to matter.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  4. #63
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    10,756

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    How many WRs did Cleveland draft this year? A ton and they still didn't have one on the field who could catch the ball.

    I know Cleveland fans are looking forward to all these draft picks but that'll only mean something if they draft well. And it'll surely mean another period of rebuilding.

    I'm beginning to question Hue Jackson's eye for talent. He thought Carson Palmer was worth a King's Ransom when he was coaching the Oakland Raiders and now he's pinning his coaching life on a 21 yr old who has trouble with the 2 most important skills for an NFL QB, recognition of defenses and accuracy.
    I don’t think Jackson is pinning his career on Kizer by choice. He doesn’t have any options. He’s not making the picks.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  5. #64
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    11,860

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I don’t think Jackson is pinning his career on Kizer by choice. He doesn’t have any options. He’s not making the picks.
    I don't know about that. I know DePodesta's "Computer" is running things, but Hue has to sign off on the picks, especially when it comes to the QB.

    Lets be honest, none of this is Hue's fault, and I actually think he is a good coach, but if the losing continues something will be done.

  6. #65
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    18,992

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    I don’t think Jackson is pinning his career on Kizer by choice. He doesn’t have any options. He’s not making the picks.
    I think he has a lot of influence in who's drafted

  7. #66
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    11,860

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think he has a lot of influence in who's drafted
    Just speaking off the top of my head here. But, I think Jackson probably has a little less say in the draft picks than your average head coach. But I would imagine he has a ton of say when it comes to QB or in what direction they are going. I would also imagine that Jackson "approves" every pick whether or not he likes them.

    I can completely understand the Browns passing on QB with the first overall pick. Its easy to say that they thought next years class was much deeper and better than this class. But over the past two seasons the Browns have invested a 3rd rounder and 2nd rounder in QB's, one of which has been inactive and the other of which is starting to mix reviews. The direction this season is going will see the Browns with a top 5 pick again and a hole at QB. Will they really want invest that pick in a QB? If they do, they have wasted a second and third rounder chasing a QB. Those are valuable picks that can come back to bite them.

  8. #67
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    10,756

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Eh, later rounds yes, but not first couple of round. Leading up to draft it was being rumored here in Cleveland that Hue was not happy about Garrett being first pick and wanted a QB.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  9. #68
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    18,992

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Eh, later rounds yes, but not first couple of round. Leading up to draft it was being rumored here in Cleveland that Hue was not happy about Garrett being first pick and wanted a QB.
    I think hindsight will show that they should have drafted Deshawn Watson #1.

    It will be interesting what they do next yr. Will they draft a QB in the first or 2nd rd? If so then they've determined Kizer is not the guy. If not then they're pinning all their hopes on him.

  10. #69
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Posts
    10,756

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think hindsight will show that they should have drafted Deshawn Watson #1.

    It will be interesting what they do next yr. Will they draft a QB in the first or 2nd rd? If so then they've determined Kizer is not the guy. If not then they're pinning all their hopes on him.
    I believe Watson is the guy Hue wanted
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  11. #70
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    11,860

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I think hindsight will show that they should have drafted Deshawn Watson #1.

    It will be interesting what they do next yr. Will they draft a QB in the first or 2nd rd? If so then they've determined Kizer is not the guy. If not then they're pinning all their hopes on him.
    Time will tell if Watson is going to be a good NFL QB. I am not ready to anoint him the next great QB, but he did have an impressive performance against NE.

  12. #71
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    8,966

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    When's this great story going to start? They look as bad as ever.
    I guess I see different things than you do. I've mentioned at least a dozen of them already before they played the Bengals and there were more positives to take away from the Bengals game.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  13. Likes:

    GAC (10-03-2017)

  14. #72
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    18,992

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    I guess I see different things than you do. I've mentioned at least a dozen of them already before they played the Bengals and there were more positives to take away from the Bengals game.
    I guess what I mean is when are these positives going to start showing up in the win column?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    That's what I was saying. They'll probably sweep the Bengals.

  15. #73
    Member GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    27,436

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Man you are looking at this with the glass half full attitude.
    Or half empty

    Explain to me what else I am suppose to hold onto? I've been pretty straightforward, pulling no punches, on how bad the Browns have been.

    Remember when they drafted a noodle arm QB to play in Cleveland in the 3rd round? Sure would be nice to have used that pick on a CB or WR or S, or LB, or any other position on the field.
    That would be Cody Kessler. Ahead of him they drafted WR Coleman in the 1st round... DE Ogbah in the 2nd ... DE Nassib in the 3rd ... and the latter three are still starting for the Browns and have been impact players. Certainly haven't been busts. Kessler is what he is - a serviceable back-up QB.

    So for three 1st round picks this year they have Miles Garrett who hasn't played a down, a developmental TE who is raw as can be, and Jabril Peppers. I will leave Peppers at that.
    So the Browns had a terrible draft because Garret suffered a high ankle sprain and has been held out? Jackson said they want him to be 100% before they bring him back, and he's scheduled to play this week. I see no problem with that. I was surprised at the Pepper's pick in the 1st round. But what is interesting is that the Steelers were wanting to draft both Peppers and Njoki.

    I guess my question to you is - what should be expected of 1st round picks - or even a lower round pick - in their first (rookie) season, and especially after only four games? Obviously you feel they should be making an immediate impact or they're somehow a bust. I think the general rule is - and there are exceptions obviously - a rookie, due to their inexperience, shouldn't be judged until their 3rd season.

    Where are their past first round picks?
    2016 1st rounder WR Coleman is a starter, just hurt
    2015 1st Rounders were DT Shelton and T Irving. Both have had injuries, as well as their ups and downs in their first two years
    2014 was the bad one ... both Gilbert and Manziel are no longer in the league. The only good that came out of that draft was OLB Kirksey who has had a solid career in Cleveland.
    2013 .... OLB Mingo who was injured a lot. The Browns refused his option after 2015 and the Pats have him now, but he hasn't done squat
    2012 .... RB Richardson and QB Weeden in the 1st round, I'll never defend the Weeden selection (LOL). But they also drafted OT Schwartz and WR Benjamin who both had solid careers in Cleveland, but simply vaulted at the end of their contracts.

    Here's my point, and it's obvious the Browns and the 1st Round draft have not mixed well. I don't know what the overall success rate is for players taken in the 1st round, but I bet it's pretty low. Why? Because it's a total crapshoot. Would you not agree that the majority of the players taken in the 1st round were players of elite status/performance at the college level for their respective positions? Yet we'd all agree that even elite level of play in college does not translate into success at the professional level. Totally different level of play and competition....

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...tal-crapshoot/

    “That’s always an interesting discussion and we talk about it all the time,” Dimitroff said. “What’s funny is we talk about that with quarterbacks but then when we start looking at positions that we’re interested in. We can look at interior D-lineman over the years or [pass] rushers or whoever they may be, and we all want to come up with this stat that says, ‘Wow, this is an easy pick.’ It’s not an easy pick in the first round.”

    It’s not easy because it remains, at best, a flip-of-the-coin proposition.

    “According to our most recent statistics that we drew on the first round, it’s less than 60 percent of those players that are starting,” Dimitroff said. “I think it may have come in at 56 percent. So point being it’s not an exact science, we know that. There are so many other things that are involved in it. The first step is finding out whether that player has the adept skills on the field, of course. Many other areas that we’re looking into to make sure they’re fits in the organization. [Do] they have the mental capacity, they have the character capacity, and the team element that a team is looking for? Again, you’d better have a plan for the guys who are a little bit wayward in their approach. That’s alway been a big discussion point as well.”

    Still, during the first round of the draft on Thursday night, it likely won’t be a discussion point that roughly one out of every two guys picked will never amount to anything in the NFL. It never is.

    It’s not a surprise. The draft is about selling hope. And it’s hard to sell hope when reality gets in the way.
    And while this is an older article, I found it's stats quite interesting .... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...ds-for-success

    Now I don't post the above to make excuses for the Browns. They've been terrible because prior front offices, since they came back into the league, have been pretty inept when it came to building an overall good team. Randy Lerner sucked as the owner of the Browns, as well as any sports franchise he has owned (LOL) ....http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...ns_boss_r.html

    Randy Lerner, when he inherited ownership in 2002 when his Dad passed, till he sold the team in 2012, single-handedly destroyed this organization and instilled this "environment" of losing. To undo what this guy did is going to take several years IMO. This current ownership/front office has had a mighty task at hand because they have to "rebuild" from the bottom up, and in every facet of this team on and off the field.

    I like those currently in the front office. I like what they've done over the last year or two. I like the hiring of Hue Jackson ... I like what they did in this past off-season to address the offensive line. I've said it before that the 2017 season would still be a rough one for the fans. I don't care about the W-L record at this stage. By season's end - not four games - I want to this team heading in a positive direction as far as a rebuild.

    But there's just too much work that has to be done to restore this team to respectability IMO. And that may be 2-3 more years down the road.

    But I've been a Browns fan for 50+ years ..... so I can wait and continue to be optimistic. What else have I got to hold onto?
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  16. Likes:

    Revering4Blue (10-03-2017)

  17. #74
    Member GAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Bellefontaine, Ohio
    Posts
    27,436

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    How many WRs did Cleveland draft this year? A ton and they still didn't have one on the field who could catch the ball.
    The Browns drafted a "ton" of WRs this past draft? They didn't draft even one. In fact, over the last five years they've only drafted a handful of WRs .... Benjamin, pothead Gordon (supplemental round), Gilbert (out of the NFL), and then Coleman.

    What they did do this past off-season was enter the market and sign some. The most notables being Britt and Higgins.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  18. #75
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    18,992

    Re: 2017 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    The Browns drafted a "ton" of WRs this past draft? They didn't draft even one. In fact, over the last five years they've only drafted a handful of WRs .... Benjamin, pothead Gordon (supplemental round), Gilbert (out of the NFL), and then Coleman.

    What they did do this past off-season was enter the market and sign some. The most notables being Britt and Higgins.
    Thanks for the correction. I misspoke. It was the 2016 draft where they drafted 4 WRs. That makes the argument all the more powerful. What do the Browns have to show for those 4 picks? Would any of them even make the 1-3 Bengals roster, let alone a good team?


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | cumberlandreds | Gallen5862 | JaxRed | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | RedsfaninMT | The Operator