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Thread: 2017 Minor League PoY

  1. #16
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Those of you that are picking Senzel over Siri are wrong.

    Siri played center field and he did so at an elite level. He stole 46 bases. He hit 24 bombs. He was an .850 OPS bat.

    Senzel is clearly the better prospect, and his bat was better. But his overall performance this year? Tough, tough sell when we consider position, defense and base running.

    Mahle for the pitcher, but Jose Lopez deserves some real consideration.

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    *BaseClogger* (09-14-2017),Kc61 (09-13-2017),nmculbreth (09-13-2017),Rojo Rijo (09-14-2017),_Sir_Charles_ (09-13-2017)

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  4. #17
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Those of you that are picking Senzel over Siri are wrong.

    Siri played center field and he did so at an elite level. He stole 46 bases. He hit 24 bombs. He was an .850 OPS bat.

    Senzel is clearly the better prospect, and his bat was better. But his overall performance this year? Tough, tough sell when we consider position, defense and base running.

    Mahle for the pitcher, but Jose Lopez deserves some real consideration.
    If Siri had split the year between Dayton and Daytona I'd be more impressed. (Don't get me wrong I am impressed)

    But I don't think he belonged in Dayton past midseason or so. I wish he had been challenged more. Not his fault, I just think he was at the wrong level for 6-8 weeks. And I figure the hit streak had a lot to do with it.

  5. #18
    Moderator RedsfaninMT's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    I'm personally thrilled to be able to debate between Siri and Senzel. May Nick's dizziness be gone and may Siri continue his climb up the ladder next year.

  6. #19
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    I hope Aquino and Long have bounceback years next season - I'll bet on Shed but take longer odds with Aquino. Siri - he still faces a mountain with the 2 toughest leagues for hitters ahead of him.
    99% of all numbers only tell 33% of the story so when looking at the numbers remember that numbers is plural...

  7. #20
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Trying not to read other posts to bias my picks:

    C - T. Stephenson
    1B - Lavalley
    2B - Blandino
    SS - Downs
    3B - Hmmm?? OK, Senzel I guess.
    LF - Trammell
    CF - Siri
    RF - Winker.

    SP Castillo
    SP Mahle
    SP Lopez
    SP Moss
    SP Gutierrez
    Alternates/Long Relief - McGuire, Ross

    RP Herget
    RP Weiss
    RP Rainey
    RP Hernandez
    RP Chacin

    Bench - If I have to take a catcher, I'll take Clementin
    IF Vincej, Long
    OF Gordon, Friedl

    Player of the year - Siri
    Hitter of the Year - Senzel
    Pitcher of the year - Mahle
    Best Debut - Castillo
    Best under the Radar performance - Strahan
    Biggest non-event - Greene

    Top Disappointments - Garrett, Reed, Aquino, Okey, Beltre. Pretty long list but we'll stop there.
    Last edited by mth123; 09-13-2017 at 07:38 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  9. #21
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Ahem, Jeter Downs - .267/.370/.424
    Defence swung it for me as well - Downs had more errors despite playing less than half the games of AlfRod.

  10. #22
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    I hope Aquino and Long have bounceback years next season - I'll bet on Shed but take longer odds with Aquino. Siri - he still faces a mountain with the 2 toughest leagues for hitters ahead of him.
    Did Long really have that bad a year? Long mashed in High A before being promoted and then struggled initially. Got injured then hit pretty well when he came off the DL. Not too worried about Long next year.

  11. #23
    GO REDS *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by ScotlandRed View Post
    Mahle and Siri

    Team:
    1B: LaValley
    2B: Long
    SS: AlfRod (slim pickings)
    3B: Senzel
    RF: Miles Gordon
    LF: Trammel
    CF: Siri
    C: Stephenson
    Blandino ran laps around Long and against tougher competition to boot...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Ahem, Jeter Downs - .267/.370/.424
    Which is below average for the Pioneer League. It's difficult to point at any shortstops in the Reds farm system and say they had a good season...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I agree with everything here except the part about Trump promising to drain the swamp of rich elites. When did he say that? I think he's putting in rich guys with the idea that they can't be bought. I don't think he ever promised not to put in rich white guys.

  12. #24
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Blandino ran laps around Long and against tougher competition to boot...

    - - - Updated - - -



    Which is below average for the Pioneer League. It's difficult to point at any shortstops in the Reds farm system and say they had a good season...
    Blandino Season - .265/.382/.453/.835OPS - 12 HR - 51 RBI - 36 2B - 4SB - 64/86 BB/K - 125 GMS
    Long Season - .281/.358/.477/.834OPS - 16 HR - 50 RBI - 22 2B - 9SB - 46/94 BB/K - 104 GMS

    I wouldn't call that running rings round Long. Blandino may have done it at a higher level but he's also nearly 3 years older than Shed. Blandinos defence is probably a few ways ahead of Shed so he has that advantage, but don't think there's as big a difference as you think.

  13. #25
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by ScotlandRed View Post
    Blandino Season - .265/.382/.453/.835OPS - 12 HR - 51 RBI - 36 2B - 4SB - 64/86 BB/K - 125 GMS
    Long Season - .281/.358/.477/.834OPS - 16 HR - 50 RBI - 22 2B - 9SB - 46/94 BB/K - 104 GMS

    I wouldn't call that running rings round Long. Blandino may have done it at a higher level but he's also nearly 3 years older than Shed. Blandinos defence is probably a few ways ahead of Shed so he has that advantage, but don't think there's as big a difference as you think.
    I'm under the impression that Shed has the better glove at 2B.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  14. #26
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I'm under the impression that Shed has the better glove at 2B.
    Fair enough my mind must be playing tricks on me. It does further the argument though.

  15. #27
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Which is below average for the Pioneer League. It's difficult to point at any shortstops in the Reds farm system and say they had a good season...
    I recognize it was slim pickings for the Reds this season at SS, but Downs' OPS was more than 200 points higher than Fredo's. wOBA: Downs .357, Fredo .278, wRC+: Downs 93, Fredo 72. It's a landslide - not because Downs was anything spectacular, but Fredo was wretched.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  16. #28
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I recognize it was slim pickings for the Reds this season at SS, but Downs' OPS was more than 200 points higher than Fredo's. wOBA: Downs .357, Fredo .278, wRC+: Downs 93, Fredo 72. It's a landslide - not because Downs was anything spectacular, but Fredo was wretched.
    Counterpoint: Downs posted a .911 fielding percentage and he's nowhere near the defender that Alfredo Rodriguez is.

    Rodriguez was 92 points below the FSL league average in OPS. Not good.
    Downs was 31 points below the Pioneer league average in OPS.

    Was Downs 60 point advantage in OPS compared to the league truly a landslide when we consider that defensively they aren't in the same stratosphere?

    Your hatred for the performance of Rodriguez may be blinding you a little bit here. It's a much closer option than you seem to believe.

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  18. #29
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Counterpoint: Downs posted a .911 fielding percentage and he's nowhere near the defender that Alfredo Rodriguez is.

    Rodriguez was 92 points below the FSL league average in OPS. Not good.
    Downs was 31 points below the Pioneer league average in OPS.

    Was Downs 60 point advantage in OPS compared to the league truly a landslide when we consider that defensively they aren't in the same stratosphere?

    Your hatred for the performance of Rodriguez may be blinding you a little bit here. It's a much closer option than you seem to believe.
    Counter counterpoint: no one measures or much cares about MiLB defensive value. Seriously, no one calculates it (at least in the public sphere). Derek Jeter had an .889 fielding% with 56 errors in 1993 and still ranked as BA's #16 overall prospect. I provided you with league-adjusted offensive stats. They're lopsided. Fredo was really terrible. So Downs committed some errors. I'm fairly certain you think he's the better prospect by a healthy margin and what they did in 2017 plays into that. One kid played like a promising #32 overall pick. The other played like a money bonfire. Such a difficult choice.

    Also, what's up with Fredo's pedestrian RF/9? I know there's a lot of team/park factors that go into that number and Fredo makes some fancy plays, but a 4.24 RF/9 is pretty paltry compared to the MiLB RF/9s of guys like Andrelton Simmons, Orlando Arcia, Zack Cozart and Elvis Andrus. Generally speaking, elite defensive shortstops make more plays than Fredo has in 2017. Ultimately this may be meaningless given his bat issues, but I'd like to see that number increase by 10-20% next season.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  19. #30
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 Minor League PoY

    That no one cares or measures minor league defensive values doesn't mean we shouldn't. I think that everyone alive knows that there's a rather large gap between the two guys defensively. That Downs is a better prospect should not have anything at all to do with who "deserves" to be nominated as an All-Star based on their performance on the field. We aren't, or at least shouldn't be ranking prospects in this exercise.

    I'll say it again: Your hatred of Alfredo Rodriguez's hitting is blinding you a little bit here. It's far closer than you initially suggested it to be.

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    *BaseClogger* (09-14-2017)


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