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Thread: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

  1. #61
    Member Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    First off, they'd need to offer him the deal up front. No need to play games. And if they buy a year or two of free agency on the back end of the deal, then I don't think MLB can void it. It's a case of paying more now in return for more years of control. There's precedent for that sort of contract in recent MLB history. MLB let the Astros do it.

    And is Rob Manfred really going to invent a rule that blocks a small market club from showing outstanding gumption, creativity and risk tolerance in bringing a young ace to middle America? I'm thinking that's a PR disaster if he tries it.
    They're not allowed to offer that deal up front, they aren't allowed to talk about a major league contract at all. All they can offer is a minor league deal with the maxed out signing bonus.

    Section H in it’s entirety of Attachment 46 to the 2017-21 MLB/MLBPA Basic Agreement speak to all of this.

    http://www.mlbplayers.com/pdf9/5450407.pdf

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    They aren't even allowed to guarantee Otani that he'll be added to the 40 man roster, let alone specify a date in which it'll occur.
    Last edited by Kinsm; 10-04-2017 at 08:11 PM.

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  4. #62
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Assuming he's serious and actually does come over this winter (I still don't buy it), his signing bonus is going to look like peanuts whomever signs him. He gets nothing of the $20 million dollar posting fee, that'll all go to the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters (his current club in the NPB).

    The Cubs, Dodgers, Giants and Royals are in their second year of the penalty, while the A’s, Astros, White Sox, Braves, Cardinals, Nationals, Padres and Reds are in their first penalty year. None of those 12 clubs can offer more than $300,000.

    And most of the 18 remaining clubs have already spent the majority of their pools since July 2nd when the international signing period opened.

  5. #63
    Overton Window Breaker WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Is this in any way similar to Cespedes? Didn't he have a clause in his contract that made him a free agent after four years? Could something similar be set for Otani?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov

  6. #64
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsm View Post
    They're not allowed to offer that deal up front, they aren't allowed to talk about a major league contract at all. All they can offer is a minor league deal with the maxed out signing bonus.

    Section H in its entirety of Attachment 46 to the 2017-21 MLB/MLBPA Basic Agreement speak to all of this.

    http://www.mlbplayers.com/pdf9/5450407.pdf

    - - - Updated - - -

    They aren't even allowed to guarantee Otani that he'll be added to the 40 man roster, let alone specify a date in which it'll occur.
    That's what I'd been looking for. I appreciate the link and the section reference.

    That simplifies things. Otani's not going to play for the Reds. Got nothing to offer him.
    Wait until the year after next year.

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  8. #65
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    I love that the Reds are scouting him. Worse case scenario, they get a good advanced scouting report on him when he signs for another team. An MLB should be scouting all the talented players they can.

    That said, I can't imagine the Reds willing to spend $20M just on the rights to sign him.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  9. #66
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    Is this in any way similar to Cespedes? Didn't he have a clause in his contract that made him a free agent after four years? Could something similar be set for Otani?
    Nope, Cespedes signed under different rules. Whomever signs Ohtani will have control over him for a minimum 6 seasons, probably more depending on when/if he's added to a 40 man roster.

  10. #67
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    I'm guessing Williams is there just as a comic prank. He leaked that they were scouting Ohtani. Kind of like how Saturday Night Live offered the Beatles $300 to reunite on the air.

    The Williamses and Cast are sitting around the computer with a cold one, reading this thread and laughing their a$$e$ off.

    At least that's my theory.

    For $300K, maybe the Reds were scouting the bullpen catcher working with Ohtani.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  12. #68
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I love that the Reds are scouting him. Worse case scenario, they get a good advanced scouting report on him when he signs for another team. An MLB should be scouting all the talented players they can.

    That said, I can't imagine the Reds willing to spend $20M just on the rights to sign him.
    The Reds would pay Billy Hamilton to sprint to the bank to wire that money so fast if they were going to sign him. They know that money would be peanuts because of the new signing rules. You'd be getting a $150-200M player for that $20M, plus a max of what, $60M if he's a STAR through his contract in arbitration?

  13. #69
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The Reds would pay Billy Hamilton to sprint to the bank to wire that money so fast if they were going to sign him. They know that money would be peanuts because of the new signing rules. You'd be getting a $150-200M player for that $20M, plus a max of what, $60M if he's a STAR through his contract in arbitration?
    Those Japanese signing fees have been hit and miss this past decade or so. Remember Dice-K? We can argue all day whether it's a smart gamble, but it seems to be way to big a gamble for this front office, from what I've seen.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  14. #70
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    DiceK also signed during different rules, he had a posting fee of like 50M$ - the NPB post fee is now maxed at 20M$ (technically teams can offer less or nothing at all).

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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Those Japanese signing fees have been hit and miss this past decade or so. Remember Dice-K? We can argue all day whether it's a smart gamble, but it seems to be way to big a gamble for this front office, from what I've seen.
    Every team in MLB is willing to gamble 20 mil on him.

  16. #72
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by Rijo's Ghost View Post
    Every team in MLB is willing to gamble 20 mil on him.
    Opinion, or sourced fact? I get there is a lot of hype around him, but there was crazy hype around Dice-K too.

    $20M is a lot just to get the rights to sign a player for even more money.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  17. #73
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Opinion, or sourced fact? I get there is a lot of hype around him, but there was crazy hype around Dice-K too.

    $20M is a lot just to get the rights to sign a player for even more money.
    Is this one of those times where you are literally just arguing to argue?

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  19. #74
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Opinion, or sourced fact? I get there is a lot of hype around him, but there was crazy hype around Dice-K too.

    $20M is a lot just to get the rights to sign a player for even more money.
    The fact that he can only sign a minor league deal makes it much more palatable for all teams involved, even the low budget Reds and Padres have spent wildly on Cubans lately. Ohtani may be a bust but all 30 owners should be more than willing to offer the 20M$ to negotiate (only 1 will actually have to pay the fee).

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  21. #75
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    Re: Dick Williams was in Japan to watch Ohtani

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Opinion, or sourced fact? I get there is a lot of hype around him, but there was crazy hype around Dice-K too.

    $20M is a lot just to get the rights to sign a player for even more money.
    20 mil is nothing in the current climate, especially when it gives you 6 years of team control. A QO this year is 18 mil.

    Every team in baseball is going to put in the max bid.


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