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Thread: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

  1. #46
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I think you have the cost of Galvis way out of whack and the Value of the Reds prospects out of whack as well. IMO, Galvis is in an entirely different (better) stratosphere than Peraza
    Neither of those stratospheres is are currently any good though.

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    You're right about Stephenson. I wouldn't deal him for one year of Galvis. When I originally suggested it, I though they could control Galvis longer. Stephens is the opposite of a high upside prospect and Lorenzen is now a mediocre journeyman who is arb eligible and really put in only one injury shortened season of being anything all that valuable. He was just a tick below league average in 2017, but a guy who doesn't go through a line-up multiple times needs to be significantly better than that to be much more than an interchangeable part. The more I think about it, dealing Lorenzen's arb case to Philly for a year of Galvis seems just about right.
    Lorenzen is a mediocre journeyman? I didn't know 25 year olds got the journeyman label after their 3rd big league season. His stat line has been mediocre to this point in time, but he has all the makings of someone who could take a big jump. Lorenzen is a great athlete who throws mid 90's with a full arsenal of pitches. You just don't trade those for a 1-2 year SS when your team is somewhat pitching starved as it is. I'd much rather who give him another shot as a starter than trading him.

    If SS was the only hole on a playoff caliber team and we had plenty of pitching I could see such a move.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 10-12-2017 at 07:50 AM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  3. #47
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Here is my pitch. Johnny Cueto. Could we get him for maybe Schebler and Mesoraco? I know they have Posey, but the Giants taking it on for maybe lightning in a bottle for one year? Now Cueto costs $75 million.
    How about Bailey, Duvall and a prospect?

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  5. #48
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Back to the original thrust of this thread is Tyler Chatwood pretty much what they're looking for? How much will he cost? And is there any way the Reds could/would pay that?
    I put Tyler Chatwood in the same tier as Tyler Mahle, Sal Romano, Brandon Finnegan and Robert Stephenson. He could be better than all of them, but he is not a lock to be. With that in mind, I would offer him a Feldman-like deal, and if that was not enough, I would move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Bryan Shaw looked really good tonight, I'd consider opening the wallet to convince him to stay in-state. He'll probably be overpaid by the end of his deal but it probably wouldn't be any worse than, say, Francisco Cordero.
    Nice target. Do you think 3 year, 20M would do the trick? Cecil seems like a decent comp and he got 4 yr, 30M last off-season, but he was a little bit better, too.

  6. #49
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    Okay. If the Reds were willing to go out and spend $89 million over 4 years, who could they realistically get? Who would you be willing to give up for that amount?

    Here is my pitch. Johnny Cueto. Could we get him for maybe Schebler and Mesoraco? I know they have Posey, but the Giants taking it on for maybe lightning in a bottle for one year? Now Cueto costs $75 million.

    I am mainly suggesting something out of the box like this as we do have some talent we can trade (maybe no superstar) but if we have pay-flex and can get creative, I think it might be better than spending 4 years 60 million on Lance Lynn.
    Given the money cost, injury history, Cueto going into his age 33 season, and poor performance in 2017, I'd pass.

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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Dealing Stephenson for one year of Freddy Galvis -- when the Reds already have Peraza -- is crazy talk. Let's try not to forget that Stephenson pitched well once given a regular turn in the rotation, showing above average stuff. Or is that FAKE NEWS?

    Unbelievable thread, and the offseason is 2 weeks old.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  8. #51
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Given the money cost, injury history, Cueto going into his age 33 season, and poor performance in 2017, I'd pass.
    He has negative trade value because of his contract, which is why if we give them an outfielder they’d have to take Homer Bailey, too. That’d leave us in the same place payroll-wise plus you have a genuine shot at TOR production out of Cueto.

  9. #52
    Member wally post's Avatar
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Cueto has a healthier outlook for the future than Bailey? How can anyone believe that - pure conjecture

  10. #53
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Nice target. Do you think 3 year, 20M would do the trick? Cecil seems like a decent comp and he got 4 yr, 30M last off-season, but he was a little bit better, too.
    That sounds around the right vicinity. I'd probably be willing to go to $8 million annually for three years if that's what it takes.
    “I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”

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  12. #54
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Dealing Stephenson for one year of Freddy Galvis -- when the Reds already have Peraza -- is crazy talk. Let's try not to forget that Stephenson pitched well once given a regular turn in the rotation, showing above average stuff. Or is that FAKE NEWS?

    Unbelievable thread, and the offseason is 2 weeks old.
    What do you think Peraza is? I mean, other than someone who needs to be upgraded immediately if he's penciled into a starting job.

    As for Stephenson, I don't think that much changed with him. He had a 5.55 BB/9 and 1.59 K/BB after he came back. He managed to avoid HRs and his BABIP dropped to .277 during that spell, but the BABIP will move back toward .300 eventually and he's a flyball pitcher (which means that HR rate will rise). He's the same pitcher with major control issues that he was before the season started.

    I'm not on the Galvis train by any stretch of the imagination, but let's not pretend Stephenson and Peraza are sacred cows.
    Wait until the year after next year.

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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    What do you think Peraza is? I mean, other than someone who needs to be upgraded immediately if he's penciled into a starting job.

    As for Stephenson, I don't think that much changed with him. He had a 5.55 BB/9 and 1.59 K/BB after he came back. He managed to avoid HRs and his BABIP dropped to .277 during that spell, but the BABIP will move back toward .300 eventually and he's a flyball pitcher (which means that HR rate will rise). He's the same pitcher with major control issues that he was before the season started.

    I'm not on the Galvis train by any stretch of the imagination, but let's not pretend Stephenson and Peraza are sacred cows.
    I agree about Peraza and Stephenson not having much value right now, but I'm guessing if the Reds put Peraza at SS all season, he'd put up around what Galvis put up last year overall. For me, the problem with that trade proposal is that Glavis isn't a good starting SS, or even a good MLB player. But I would trade Peraza and Stephenson for a solid, young starting SS in a heartbeat.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    If I was to come up with a trade for a controllable starter, it might look something like this:

    DET gets:
    OF Adam Duvall

    CIN gets:
    LH Daniel Norris
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov

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  17. #57
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    If I was to come up with a trade for a controllable starter, it might look something like this:

    DET gets:
    OF Adam Duvall

    CIN gets:
    LH Daniel Norris
    I'd toss in another prospect or two to get it done as well.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  18. #58
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    If I was to come up with a trade for a controllable starter, it might look something like this:

    DET gets:
    OF Adam Duvall

    CIN gets:
    LH Daniel Norris
    That's a more reasonable idea simply because the Reds likely don't have money to throw at new pitchers. Whatever they do is going to need to be within spitting distance of revenue neutrality.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  19. #59
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    If I was to come up with a trade for a controllable starter, it might look something like this:

    DET gets:
    OF Adam Duvall

    CIN gets:
    LH Daniel Norris
    I like the idea of flipping Duvall for Norris, but is Norris much more likely to be better than Tyler Mahle, Sal Romano, Brandon Finnegan and Robert Stephenson? He seems like more of the same to me. I would prefer packaging Duvall with more talent and get a guy who is more of a sure thing.

  20. #60
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    Re: Rotation, Relievers Are Reds' Top 2018 Priority

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    I like the idea of flipping Duvall for Norris, but is Norris much more likely to be better than Tyler Mahle, Sal Romano, Brandon Finnegan and Robert Stephenson? He seems like more of the same to me. I would prefer packaging Duvall with more talent and get a guy who is more of a sure thing.
    Probably not, but if you buy enough lottery tickets you will surely hit a few winners.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.


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