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Thread: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

  1. #46
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Interesting. Thanks for the info.

    So Statcast strongly disagrees with UZR. Can we find Statcast data anywhere?
    https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catch...ty_leaderboard

    Worth noting, the statcast data is only for outfielders.

    For Hamilton, he was last (among the three finalist) in catch rate of 0-25% probability players, last in 26-50% plays and last in 51-75% plays. So, on the tougher plays, he was behind the other two, and by a decent margin. It's hard to believe, given what we saw him do - but the numbers tell a different story. The other guys are really freaking good, too.

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  4. #47
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Statcast data strongly disagrees that Billy was the clear winner. In fact, he was a clear 3rd best among the finalists.
    Does the Statcast data take into account outfield assists?

    From what I can tell from your link, Inciarte had 9 more "outs above average" than Billy...but Billy did have 6 more actual outfield assists.

    And how did Inciarte miss two outs on 1-star plays? Did he drop balls hit right at him?
    Last edited by sjjones; 11-08-2017 at 07:47 AM.

  5. #48
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    I declare that Statcast flawed.
    It seems to be filled with subjective estimates of how catchable a ball is.
    I wonder if many of the balls that Billy did not get credit for catching are balls that the other outfielders would not even get to.
    I know I watch the Reds and see Billy's amazing defense in CF. I don't watch Atlanta. I don't know if I have even heard of Inciarte. I find it hard to imaging that Inciarte runs down the balls that Billy makes look like a routine catchs. Billy's threw out a lot of runners from the outfield too. I wonder if the number of games that Billy missed cost him the GG.

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  7. #49
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Statcast data strongly disagrees that Billy was the clear winner. In fact, he was a clear 3rd best among the finalists.
    But, but, but.....advanced defensive metrics!!!!!!! I actually feel most badly for Duvall who was robbed of a ton of imaginary trade value.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #50
    Member texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Using (or maybe misusing) StatCast numbers, Duvall was a much better fielder than either Parra or Ozuna. Duvall's OAA (Outs Above Average) was +9. Parra checked in at +4. And, Ozuna hung up a very average-ish +1.

  9. #51
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/catch...ty_leaderboard

    Worth noting, the statcast data is only for outfielders.

    For Hamilton, he was last (among the three finalist) in catch rate of 0-25% probability players, last in 26-50% plays and last in 51-75% plays. So, on the tougher plays, he was behind the other two, and by a decent margin. It's hard to believe, given what we saw him do - but the numbers tell a different story. The other guys are really freaking good, too.
    Maybe that's because all plays are 76-100% plays for Hamilton.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

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  11. #52
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Hamilton Isn’t good enough offensively.
    Yup
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  12. #53
    Joey Votto Fangirl HeatherC1212's Avatar
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    I'm so happy for Tucker!!!!
    "I tried to play golf, but I found out I wasn't very good." -Joey Votto on his offseason hobby search

    An MLB.com reporter asked what one thing Votto couldn’t do. “I can’t skate or play hockey,” Votto said. “Well, I can skate ... but I can’t stop.”

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  14. #54
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Tucker was the one who I thought deserved it the most. It would have been nice to see Billy win; I'm afraid he might not have many more years where he plays enough games to get the award. Tough competition in center.
    “It is quite possible--overwhelmingly probable, one might guess--that we will always learn more about human life and personality from novels than from scientific psychology” ― Noam Chomsky

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  15. #55
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017


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  17. #56
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Who the F is Juan Barajas?

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  19. #57
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by bigfoot52 View Post
    I declare that Statcast flawed.
    It seems to be filled with subjective estimates of how catchable a ball is.
    I wonder if many of the balls that Billy did not get credit for catching are balls that the other outfielders would not even get to.
    I know I watch the Reds and see Billy's amazing defense in CF. I don't watch Atlanta. I don't know if I have even heard of Inciarte. I find it hard to imaging that Inciarte runs down the balls that Billy makes look like a routine catchs. Billy's threw out a lot of runners from the outfield too. I wonder if the number of games that Billy missed cost him the GG.
    You clearly have no clue how statcast works.

    And none of the games he missed cost him the GG because apparently voting was due in early September.

  20. #58
    Moderator cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Congrats to Barnhart! The Reds got a pleasant surprise when they had to use him because of Mez's injury. Can we now say Mez has been Wally Pipped?
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  21. #59
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    Congrats to Barnhart! The Reds got a pleasant surprise when they had to use him because of Mez's injury. Can we now say Mez has been Wally Pipped?
    Since starting catchers do not play more than 2/3 of the games anyways, the Reds were always going to need two decent catchers. Mes may be starting less than Barnhart this year, but he could still be a key player for this team if he can stay healthy and produce at a near 2014 level.

  22. #60
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    Re: Reds defense and Gold Gloves 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Since starting catchers do not play more than 2/3 of the games anyways, the Reds were always going to need two decent catchers. Mes may be starting less than Barnhart this year, but he could still be a key player for this team if he can stay healthy and produce at a near 2014 level.
    Yeah. Hope the Reds are lining up a backup catcher for Barnhart.

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