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Thread: Girardi out as Yankees manager

  1. #61
    Member Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Translation: We just wanted to fire him, here's some bull we just pulled out of the sky to justify it.
    Better than, we want to fire him but we'll probably suck again next year and if we fire him fans will finally stare at the FO and not the dugout - so we should just keep him around?

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  3. #62
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Colin Cowherd is reporting that Girardi wanted out so he could pursue other interests; particularly in the Commissioner's office. He'd like to work for the MLB office in NY and eventually possibly even be Commissioner

  4. #63
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Girardi told WFANs Sweeny Murti that he did not decide to step down.

  5. #64
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Colin Cowherd is reporting that Girardi wanted out so he could pursue other interests; particularly in the Commissioner's office. He'd like to work for the MLB office in NY and eventually possibly even be Commissioner
    Email from Joe:

    “With a heavy heart, I come to you because the Yankees have decided not to bring me back.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/26/s...kees.html?_r=0

  6. #65
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Yes, really. All of those examples you listed are starting pitchers throwing plenty of useful innings. Take the Reds team of 2017 with 5 starters throwing useful innings and we have a pretty good team, don't we? Every season Matheny has had 5 or more quality big league starting pitchers, even in the face of injuries.

    Does Matheny get credit for DeJong finally staying healthy and having a monster BABIP fueled year, or Pham's BABIP fueled season? They wouldn't have needed those breakouts had Piscotty, Aledmys Diaz, and Randal Grichuk taking noticeable to large steps back.

    Even these last two years, most every publication was projecting the Cardinals to win 82-85 games. And that is essentially what they did. And that is not a knock against Matheny, I tend to think managers have little impact above the true talent of their teams, I just don't see it as justification that he is somehow getting more out of his team than expected.
    Pretty much any collection of pitchers makes the Reds a better team.

    Most publications knew Matheny was the manager, so that makes sense about their projections.

    I do think that Matheny gets credit for his players consistently outperforming their projections. I think that is the main job of a manager. I guess we will just have to disagree.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  7. #66
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    If the Dodgers lose the World Series, do the Dodgers fire Dave Roberts? It makes just as much sense as this.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

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    Assembly Hall (10-27-2017)

  9. #67
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Good teams fire their managers, bad teams (Reds) stay the course.

    It's bizarre.
    Go Gators!

  10. #68
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Already been posted:

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    With a heavy heart, I come to you because the Yankees have decided not to bring me back.

    He was let go, which is surprising. I could have seen Girardi deciding to move on, but I have no idea why the Yankees thought they could do better. The Yankees were supposed to be continuing a rebuild this season, and made it one game away from the World Series.

  11. #69
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Pretty much any collection of pitchers makes the Reds a better team.

    Most publications knew Matheny was the manager, so that makes sense about their projections.

    I do think that Matheny gets credit for his players consistently outperforming their projections. I think that is the main job of a manager. I guess we will just have to disagree.
    I don't think statistical models reflect the manager whatsoever and I am referring to statistical projections, not Joe Columnist making his standings projections.

    I would ask you then to show something that shows players under Matheny consistently outperform their projections, I get the feeling it might just be observational bias. Sure, Pham and DeJong had great years, but Grichuk, Piscotty, and Diaz were rather large regressions. They had that crazy RISP year in 2013 but have they consistently done it? I don't believe they have, that makes it a random outlier. If I recall correctly the following season was basically the opposite.

    If the Reds had that pitching staff they may have very well been a better team than the Cardinals this year, but I am not going to go run and claim Price is a great manager and deserves credit for Suarez and Scooter's breakout.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 10-27-2017 at 08:04 AM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  12. #70
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    I don't think statistical models reflect the manager whatsoever and I am referring to statistical projections, not Joe Columnist making his standings projections.

    I would ask you then to show something that shows players under Matheny consistently outperform their projections, I get the feeling it might just be observational bias. Sure, Pham and DeJong had great years, but Grichuk, Piscotty, and Diaz were rather large regressions. They had that crazy RISP year in 2013 but have they consistently done it? I don't believe though, that makes it a random outlier. If I recall correctly the following season was basically the opposite.

    If the Reds had that pitching staff they may have very well been a better team than the Cardinals this year, but I am not going to go run and claim Price is a great manager and deserves credit for Suarez and Scooter's breakout.
    We disagree on the effect a manager had on his players. No stats are going to show that one way or the other.

    I look at the Cardinals talent year after year, and wonder how the hell they do it. I see a team that wins despite big talent holes, every year. I see different players year after year have career years that defy expectations. I see non-prospects come out of nowhere every year and be big time producers. With the Cardinals, it's always something out of the ordinary.

    That comes from somewhere. The most obvious answer is the coaching, and that starts with Matheny.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  13. #71
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    So, three 90+ win playoff teams fired their managers, has that ever happened before?
    No. Of course, one must qualify that factoid by remembering that the current playoff structure makes this far more likely than in the past. [Prior to 1969, it was impossible, as only two teams advanced to the post-season. From '69-'93, only four teams. From '95-2011, six teams. Only from 2012 to the present has that number jumped to eight teams.]

    Per usual, fivethirtyeight is on this, as far as the stats/data/trivia goes: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ts-not-enough/

    Though this is the first time 3 playoff managers were fired in the same "off-season" (note: season not actually over), they make a case that this is only the 2nd most accomplished "class" of fired managers in the entire expansion era. As a way of anecdotally backing up their "manager points" systems, a case is made that Girardi -- while likely the best of the fired bunch -- was still only a "good" manager in an age where the Yankees (predictably) want the best.

    As a Yankees fan, I too want the best. But as a pragmatic person (one who also doesn't see the rush to show Bryan Price the door when exactly zero of his teams have ever underperformed their roster construction, or even come particularly close to doing so), I'm not exactly sanguine about getting rid of somebody as proven-to-be-"good" as Girardi clearly is, without knowing 100% for sure that you've already got something better lined up.

    Making a move just because you're bored or antsy is a very silly sportstalk-radio-shouter/videogame-fantasy-GM type of thing to do, and usually (USUALLY) that is not the Yankees M.O. So I kind hope there is something more going on behind the scenes, and we find out soon that "better" really is on the way... but I guess we'll all see soon enough.

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    Ron Madden (10-27-2017)

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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman View Post
    "He failed to cultivate strategies to ease up over the long season, whether it was dealing with analytical suggestions from above or a player with concerns about where he fit in the Yankees biosphere. "

    http://nypost.com/2017/10/26/what-ma...t-him-his-job/
    I thought that was a well written article by Joel Sherman, it made a whole lotta sense to me.
    Sometimes a person in management can be too overbearing.

  16. #73
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by FlightRick View Post
    No. Of course, one must qualify that factoid by remembering that the current playoff structure makes this far more likely than in the past. [Prior to 1969, it was impossible, as only two teams advanced to the post-season. From '69-'93, only four teams. From '95-2011, six teams. Only from 2012 to the present has that number jumped to eight teams.].
    I think it was 2,4,8,10
    WHEN DOES IT STOP!?!?

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    FlightRick (10-28-2017)

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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Is Girardi a good manager?
    910 - 710; 28-24 in post-season; 1 WS ring w/ Yankees.

    He's no Dusty, but the results are there.

    And if I'm not mistaken, this Yankees team was considered a year or two away and they ended up a game away from the WS.

  19. #75
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Girardi out as Yankees manager

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBrick View Post
    910 - 710; 28-24 in post-season; 1 WS ring w/ Yankees.

    He's no Dusty, but the results are there.

    And if I'm not mistaken, this Yankees team was considered a year or two away and they ended up a game away from the WS.
    $2,000,000,000+ payroll in that time


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