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Thread: Bring the Big Doggie Home

  1. #16
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    You see the same stuff in big corporations, guys paid lots of money to sit on boards and provide nothing but smiles.
    Go Gators!

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  4. #17
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    You see the same stuff in big corporations, guys paid lots of money to sit on boards and provide nothing but smiles.
    I'm sure that's the case. And it's stupid there, too.

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  6. #18
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    What is really strange is that trading Perez was likely at the time the absolute correct baseball move.

    The Reds had Danny Driessen ready to lay first, and he was younger, faster, a way better fielder, and likely a better hitter going forward.

    While Drieesen didn't develop as a hitter as much as they thought, Perez did continue to hit and the Reds missed his club house presence a fair bit.

    At the end of the day, Driessen actually was a slightly better player than Perez over the next 4 years (on a cumulative basis), but even Sparky mentioned how much Tony was missed in the club house.

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  8. #19
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    What is really strange is that trading Perez was likely at the time the absolute correct baseball move.

    The Reds had Danny Driessen ready to lay first, and he was younger, faster, a way better fielder, and likely a better hitter going forward.

    While Drieesen didn't develop as a hitter as much as they thought, Perez did continue to hit and the Reds missed his club house presence a fair bit.

    At the end of the day, Driessen actually was a slightly better player than Perez over the next 4 years (on a cumulative basis), but even Sparky mentioned how much Tony was missed in the club house.
    In hind sight the thing to do was to trade DD for a good starting pitcher

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  10. #20
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking View Post
    Actually, this has been decided by the creation of the 10/5 rule. Tony would have had 10/5 rights by the time he was traded and could have vetoed it.

    I realize trading him wasn't really cruel and that he is now 75 years old. I'd just like to see him in an official capacity with the Reds as he deserves to leave baseball on his own accord.
    I was actually surprised by your mention of the 10/5 rule because I was skeptical that it was in place back then, but I just did some research for myself and see that it was in place as early as 1975; with a first mention involving the Rusty Staub, Mickey Lolich trade at the 1975 winter meetings. Lolich had 10/5 rights and initially demurred. I had forgotten that this rule dated back to the advent of free agency.
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  11. #21
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    In hind sight the thing to do was to trade DD for a good starting pitcher
    Or trade Perez for better pitching than Fryman and Murray. Even then I remember thinking Woody freaking Fryman?
    99% of all numbers only tell 33% of the story so when looking at the numbers remember that numbers is plural...

  12. #22
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    What is really strange is that trading Perez was likely at the time the absolute correct baseball move.

    The Reds had Danny Driessen ready to lay first, and he was younger, faster, a way better fielder, and likely a better hitter going forward.

    While Drieesen didn't develop as a hitter as much as they thought, Perez did continue to hit and the Reds missed his club house presence a fair bit.

    At the end of the day, Driessen actually was a slightly better player than Perez over the next 4 years (on a cumulative basis), but even Sparky mentioned how much Tony was missed in the club house.
    Perez and his club house presence was missed but the real reason the BRM came apart was the pitching. People who totally blame the trade of Perez are just wrong.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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  14. #23
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What's interesting to me here is the salary. I'd always wondered what these special advisor types make. $100,000 a year for some advice? That sounds like an awful lot of money when you probably aren't paying any of your actual scouts that kind of money (not counting guys like Buckley/Arias who head up departments in the scouting area). With all due respect to those guys, I just can't figure out how they are worth more than the guys out there who are actually watching all of the guys play, providing reports - stuff like that. If you've got 4 guys on your payroll in those advisory roles, that adds up quickly. It sounds like guys like Dawson and Perez aren't like Larkin/Davis types who are out there traveling around also acting as coaches in the system, too. But merely guys that are hanging out in spring training and at the big league stadium and are asked for some advice on potential moves/ideas every so often.
    I have no idea what the arrangement was with the Marlins, but I'd imagine that the Reds could get $100k worth of value out of Perez just by using him strictly in a public-facing PR role.

  15. #24
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    I have no idea what the arrangement was with the Marlins, but I'd imagine that the Reds could get $100k worth of value out of Perez just by using him strictly in a public-facing PR role.
    I mean, it's possible..... but I'd much rather see that kind of money spent on baseball people - be it scouts or analytics guys. Not a 75-year-old former player who, realistically, isn't giving them any information that's going to likely be useful on any decision they have to make.

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  17. #25
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I mean, it's possible..... but I'd much rather see that kind of money spent on baseball people - be it scouts or analytics guys. Not a 75-year-old former player who, realistically, isn't giving them any information that's going to likely be useful on any decision they have to make.
    You're talking about using him in a baseball advisory role, I'm talking about using him in a marketing role.

    If Tony Perez can generate an extra $100k worth of ticket sales he essentially pays for himself.

  18. #26
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    You're talking about using him in a baseball advisory role, I'm talking about using him in a marketing role.

    If Tony Perez can generate an extra $100k worth of ticket sales he essentially pays for himself.
    If the scout can generate 1 win a year he's worth $8M. And you could hire two scouts for that same price of one Tony Perez.

    In terms of marketing/PR, I'd bet you could get him to come into town for an appearance for $10K a pop. I'd explore that kind of option before throwing down $100K.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 11-03-2017 at 12:52 AM.

  19. #27
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    You see the same stuff in big corporations, guys paid lots of money to sit on boards and provide nothing but smiles.
    And corporate mid-level managers that are paid huge money to manage 2-3 other managers (who are also highly paid and should need minimal supervision).
    These mid-level managers do not provide any kind of vision or leadership or decision making, they just exist to pass status up the food chain.

    Now some mid-level managers add value, but many don't.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

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  20. #28
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    You're talking about using him in a baseball advisory role, I'm talking about using him in a marketing role.

    If Tony Perez can generate an extra $100k worth of ticket sales he essentially pays for himself.
    I am skeptical Tony Perez would add much marketing value at all.
    IIRC, Tony was traded after 1976 season. That was over 40 years ago.
    Now, he came back in the mid 80's as a pinch hitter and backup 1b, but the people that saw him then (and not in the 70s) are not likely to be wowed.

    It just seems that the people that remember Perez at his peak are going to be around 45-50 or older.. Those type of people are not likely to get all excited that a last place team has a BRM guy doing publicity (not likely to influence them buying tickets). I bet only a tiny percentage of fans can even name one "special assistant to the GM" on the Reds. I can't.

    Now, bringing Tony back in the 80s as a pinch hitter was a brilliant marketing move.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  22. #29
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I am skeptical Tony Perez would add much marketing value at all.
    The only people who would get exited about Perez back with the Reds are people already buying tickets and coming to the games.
    Go Gators!

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  24. #30
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Bring the Big Doggie Home

    My take: Leave the Big Red Machine guys for whatever manufactured marketing weekend you come up with every year, and keep the old guys far away from Dick Williams. The "brain trust" in Miami has been doing bad things for years. Keep them far away.
    Hugs, smiling, and interactive Twitter accounts, don't mean winning baseball. Until this community understands that we are cursed to relive the madness.

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