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Thread: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

  1. #61
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by UPRedsFan View Post
    What things specifically? We know the velocity at a young age. But beyond that, what things?
    The athleticism. The ease in which he can throw so hard. Multiple people raved about how quickly he was able to use that athleticism to make physical adjustments from one outing to the next (people that didn't work for the Reds).

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  4. #62
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why are you assuming that the only people I've spoken with are in the Reds organization? They aren't. In fact, I've talked with more people about him that don't work for the Reds. And it's pretty much people being giddy.

    You can do what you want with that information. But when people act like this over players, who are paid to evaluate players, it's a different kind of animal.
    Better that you're talking about a wider array of people, but we already knew the world liked him before the draft. And I don't think that is a different kind of animal. Baseball's got a never-ending amount of hype. Again, I'm not saying it's wrong to buy early on Greene. Might be 100% right.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  5. #63
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I'm sure they're excited. He did get picked #2 overall and rated #1 overall in the recent draft. I think we all know he's got an exciting set of tools. Yet that's hype, or at least partially hype. We could have heard similar things from other organizations about Tyler Kolek and Riley Pint in recent years, and - as it turns out - they suck. So I hope the hype is correct and Greene turns out to be the real deal, but sometimes kids with that kind of hype go nowhere. And Greene's pitched less than most other mega-prep arms. I think that's probably a good thing for the long haul, but we'll have to see how the Reds adjust for that and whether that creates a different set of challenges for Greene.

    There's a lot of unknown with him. We can dream on his ceiling, but how do you balance that against a guy like Winker, whose warts are more visible, but his projection is more tangible? I get making an early bet on Greene. You very well might be right. By the same token, I also get exercising some caution because no one knows what's going to happen when he gets a serious workload. Lots of stuff to weigh on either side of the equation.
    I'm sure everyone has a different way of balancing ceiling vs. floor but I think it's a whole lot easier to find (and cheaper to obtain) a facsimile replacement for Winker than one for Greene, which for me puts Greene easily ahead of Winker.

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  7. #64
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Better that you're talking about a wider array of people, but we already knew the world liked him before the draft. And I don't think that is a different kind of animal. Baseball's got a never-ending amount of hype. Again, I'm not saying it's wrong to buy early on Greene. Might be 100% right.
    Everything has a never-ending amount of hype. But when the people paid to evaluate things act like this over something, it's usually for very good reason. They aren't talking about Greene like tech reviewers are talking about the iPhone 8. They're talking about him like he's the iPhone X, if it were released in 2008.

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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Let me be clear, when I said that I was "high" on Winker and had him in front of Greene, that was only because of how high I am on Winker. I have bought into the hype on Hunter Greene, but I think the value behind a guy that reaches on base as much as Winker does, should be ranked higher than a guy that is only 17 and barely has any professional experience. So me saying I am high on Winker does not mean I am not high on Greene. Just reading that SI article on Greene excites you. (I have not seen any instructional league information, so maybe after that I might change my mind, but I am all in on Jesse Winker.)

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  10. #66
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Everything has a never-ending amount of hype. But when the people paid to evaluate things act like this over something, it's usually for very good reason. They aren't talking about Greene like tech reviewers are talking about the iPhone 8. They're talking about him like he's the iPhone X, if it were released in 2008.
    Tech reviewers are paid to evaluate technology. You know that, right?

    And I'm under the impression Greene uses one of his hands to throw a baseball, like every other pitcher. He's not using his mind (or magic) to fold space and time and apparate it into the catcher's mitt. I recognize he's got the chance to be really good, but you'll have to excuse me if we stop short of calling him the next Clayton Kershaw before we even know if he can throw a consistent breaking ball. And no one knows if he can actually do that.

    I've been around long enough to see way too many grown men overreact to various things in this world that I'm pretty much immune the line of argument you're presenting. Yes, Hunter Greene's got drool-inducing potential. Yet are you saying he's ready to step into the MWL and dominate it? Are you saying he'll be pitching well in the majors before he can legally buy a drink? Are you saying he's already a top five overall prospect?

    Or are you just saying he's got a ton of buzz, which we knew before the Reds drafted him? Specifics would help.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  11. #67
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdrich View Post
    Let me be clear, when I said that I was "high" on Winker and had him in front of Greene, that was only because of how high I am on Winker. I have bought into the hype on Hunter Greene, but I think the value behind a guy that reaches on base as much as Winker does, should be ranked higher than a guy that is only 17 and barely has any professional experience. So me saying I am high on Winker does not mean I am not high on Greene. Just reading that SI article on Greene excites you. (I have not seen any instructional league information, so maybe after that I might change my mind, but I am all in on Jesse Winker.)
    I think there's merit in both sides of that argument.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  12. #68
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Tech reviewers are paid to evaluate technology. You know that, right?
    That was exactly my point. When they start talking about something and they are more excited about it than any piece of tech they've ever reviewed before, it usually means something.

    And I'm under the impression Greene uses one of his hands to throw a baseball, like every other pitcher. He's not using his mind (or magic) to fold space and time and apparate it into the catcher's mitt. I recognize he's got the chance to be really good, but you'll have to excuse me if we stop short of calling him the next Clayton Kershaw before we even know if he can throw a consistent breaking ball. And no one knows if he can actually do that.
    No one is trying to compare him to Kershaw right now, though. What they are doing is comparing him to other prospects and, well, there are plenty of people talking about him being incredibly special.

    I've been around long enough to see way too many grown men overreact to various things in this world that I'm pretty much immune the line of argument you're presenting. Yes, Hunter Greene's got drool-inducing potential. Yet are you saying he's ready to step into the MWL and dominate it? Are you saying he'll be pitching well in the majors before he can legally buy a drink? Are you saying he's already a top five overall prospect?
    I'm not willing to say he's a Top 5 prospect in baseball, but I talked to at least one person who is employed by a non-Reds Major League Baseball team who saw him pitch in instructional league who said aside from Ronald Acuna, he's the best prospect in the game. I'll say this much: The guy that showed up against the Royals in instructional league the second time around - that guy would destroy the Midwest League. Do I know if that guy can show up every fifth day? Nope. And that's why I won't rank him ahead of Nick Senzel yet. But more than a few people I spoke with would have.

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  14. #69
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    That was exactly my point. When they start talking about something and they are more excited about it than any piece of tech they've ever reviewed before, it usually means something.
    No, I've worked with tech reviewers. They get geeked about everything. And are you telling me the consensus of people who've seen Hunter Greene is he's the greatest thing they've ever seen? Because if you are, I'm calling shenanigans on that.
    Wait until the year after next year.

  15. #70
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    No, I've worked with tech reviewers. They get geeked about everything. And are you telling me the consensus of people who've seen Hunter Greene is he's the greatest thing they've ever seen? Because if you are, I'm calling shenanigans on that.
    No, I'm not telling you that everyone is saying that. But I am saying that almost everyone I talked to spoke about him, and acted like while speaking about him, unlike they do when they've talked about anyone else I've ever heard people in this industry react to players.

    And we must follow different tech reviewers.

  16. #71
    Wait... What? Vander's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    I hate the word "hype". It has such a negative connotation.

    Yes, there is a ton of hype surrounding Greene. Unlike in other cases, this hype is more than justified.

  17. #72
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Vander View Post
    I hate the word "hype". It has such a negative connotation.

    Yes, there is a ton of hype surrounding Greene. Unlike in other cases, this hype is more than justified.
    Hype done well is an art form.

    Wait until the year after next year.

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  19. #73
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    What would non-Reds employees gain from hyping Hunter Greene at this point?

  20. #74
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What would non-Reds employees gain from hyping Hunter Greene at this point?
    Absolutely nothing.

  21. #75
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    Re: Upcoming Baseball America Reds Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    What would non-Reds employees gain from hyping Hunter Greene at this point?
    They don't gain anything. It's just a function of them doing which indulges subjectivity and blather costs them nothing.
    Wait until the year after next year.


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