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Thread: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

  1. #451
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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    A Franchise Quarterback is one that is the face of the franchise, one where you stop looking for his replacement.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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  3. #452
    Member GAC's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    I still don't understand this 'franchise' quarterback tag and how you know, for example, that Carson Wentz is one. Certainly Wentz was having a great year before he was injured, but Nick Foles stepped in and their offense really didn't miss a beat. Is Carson Wentz a 'franchise' quarterback or does the Eagles team/system just make him look like one?

    Suppose he had been drafted by the Browns and been toiling away in their offensive system for the past two years. Would he have made the Pro Bowl? Would the Browns have won many more games? Would he be considered a 'franchise' quarterback or would the Browns still be looking for that elusive beast?

    I still say the coaches, system and surrounding talent makes the quarterback rather than the other way around.
    Good post, and I'm with you on this. It's like "What came first, the chicken or the egg?" when it comes to the term "franchise QB".

    My position has always been with your last sentence (bold).... begins with a front office that knows what it's doing when it comes to building a successful team that is comprised of your three variables - coaching staff, system, and surrounding talent. I'd then say the final piece of that puzzle, the "icing on the cake", is acquiring that QB that has the athleticism, knowledge and skill-set (obviously); but who also complements whatever system that team implements (makes it work). That's the key IMO.

    It's not a knock on Foles, and what he accomplished in the play-offs; but having all those variables in place made his job a lot easier. That, and the Pat's horrendous defense (LOL). Even with his erratic, inconsistent "history", which had him bouncing around with a few teams, Foles knew Pederson's system, was (is) most comfortable in that type.

    I look at this current QB class coming out of college, as well as those NFL QBs that may be available in the upcoming market - and I don't care how "talented" they may be, or that they possess the skill-set for the NFL .... you don't have the coach, system, team around you, then you're going to struggle, it's not going to matter. That's why I supported and cut DeShone Kizer some slack. The kid has the physical ability and skill-set. He was not only an inexperienced rookie, but simply thrown into a terrible situation, yet expected to produce IMMEDIATELY. IMO, Wentz or Watson would have struggled in Cleveland in their efforts to build/rebuild (whatever).

    Look at Tom Brady. We're discussing now that he may be the greatest NFL QB ever. He just set a SB record throwing for 500+ yards (against a sound defense too) - yet lost. And they lost, IMO, because of their bad defense. Yet Brady was drafted in the 6th round, and only because the Pats had to use that pick on someone - "Take that kid out of Michigan" (LOL).

    It's going to be interesting to see how many of the QBs taken in this draft (1st round) turn out to be busts. The percentage game (and history) is not in their favor. And were they really busts because they're just not NFL-caliber players -or - the team itself is bad (front office, coaching staff, lack of talent), and they're facing an uphill battle to begin with?

    Do you build around a QB -or- build the team first, then get your QB? Again... the chicken or the egg scenario (LOL).

    So evaluating/drafting the best QB possible is one thing. The key is - does he fit/complement your system, a system that also has the surrounding talent?
    Last edited by GAC; 02-07-2018 at 05:34 AM.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  4. #453
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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    From Rotoworld with Rotoworld comments:

    The MLB's Texas Rangers traded Russell Wilson to the New York Yankees.

    Wilson played his college baseball at NC State and was drafted by the Colorado Rockies in the fourth round in 2010. In 2013, he was dealt to the Rangers and went to spring training in 2014 and 2015. He has always dreamed of playing for the Yankees, Wilson says, and plans to attend spring training with the Bronx Bombers this year. Wilson still has no plans to be a dual-sport athlete.

    Source: ESPN.com
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  5. #454
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    2017 NFL Season Part 2

    Does anyone else think the Patriots intentionally sabotaged the Colts head coaching search in retaliation for deflate gate?

    I donít think McDaniels did so much as Kraft and Belichick getting involved at the last minute.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    From Rotoworld with Rotoworld comments:

    The MLB's Texas Rangers traded Russell Wilson to the New York Yankees.

    Wilson played his college baseball at NC State and was drafted by the Colorado Rockies in the fourth round in 2010. In 2013, he was dealt to the Rangers and went to spring training in 2014 and 2015. He has always dreamed of playing for the Yankees, Wilson says, and plans to attend spring training with the Bronx Bombers this year. Wilson still has no plans to be a dual-sport athlete.

    Source: ESPN.com
    So, the Yankees have a better QB than the Jets, Giants, and Mets.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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  9. #456
    Overton Window Breaker WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    So, the Yankees have a better QB than the Jets, Giants, and Mets.
    And the Mets have arguably the second best QB among those franchises.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ďmy ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov

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  11. #457
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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Does anyone else think the Patriots intentionally sabotaged the Colts head coaching search in retaliation for deflate gate?

    I don’t think McDaniels did so much as Kraft and Belichick getting involved at the last minute.
    Partial sabotage for that? Yeah. Partially playing it 'safe' because they just wanted to make sure they retained a good coordinator (and potential head coach)? Yeah.
    Last edited by redsfandan; 02-07-2018 at 10:58 PM.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  12. #458
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Partial sabotage for that? Yeah. Partially playing it 'safe' and making sure they retained a good coordinator? Yeah.
    Kraft and Belichick could have given McDaniels assurances to keep him in Foxboro a lot earlier in the playoffs, but why wait until the day after he accepts the offer?

    The Colts are now behind everyone else getting ready for the combine with no coaching staff in place. They believed they had their coach until the Patriots made a play to keep McDaniels at the last minute.

    McDaniels agent also cut ties with him as well, FWIW.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  13. #459
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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    So, the Yankees have a better QB than the Jets, Giants, and Mets.
    Jeopardy's Final tonight made me realize that I never really thought about the Mets and Knicks having the same colors, or that they were the colors of the New York City flag, or that New York City even had a flag, or that two of the colors were the same as the colors the Dutch used to use on their flag.

    Guess that's about as random as Russell Wilson getting traded.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  14. #460
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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Wilson still has no plans to be a dual-sport athlete.
    CTE may change his mind, while he still has one to change. It was Wilson who seems to have been given a phony "checkup" after being knocked silly and woozy during a game. (Disclaimer: It's not concussions, but repeated knocking of the brain against the cranium, thus making helmets irrelevant, and concussions irrelevant, that lead to CTE.)
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  15. #461
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    Re: 2017 NFL Season Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Does anyone else think the Patriots intentionally sabotaged the Colts head coaching search in retaliation for deflate gate?

    I don’t think McDaniels did so much as Kraft and Belichick getting involved at the last minute.
    He might as well have been because now McDaniels has painted himself into a corner of make it work in NE or never coach again. I don't know if any franchise will even sniff at him after pulling this.
    Quote Originally Posted by teamselig
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