Star Wars: The Spoiler Thread

[KittyDuran]

Something light-hearted via Twitter (which has been vicious re TLJ):

Attachment 13118

Going to see it a few more times this week. Only see super-hero, sci-fi and fantasy movies these days since it is so expensive. Went to the AMC IMAX 3D in West Chester $15+, a bottle water and mozzarella sticks-but no recliners . Anyway, a movie better be damn entertaining and a escape from the real world (and TLJ delivered). I'm not a Star Wars fangirl...so I don't get the hate.

[Bourgeois Zee]

Luke completed the Hero's Journey in this film. Kudos to Johnson for turning him into a three-dimensional character with faults and foibles central to his character.

I really liked the chemistry between Finn and Rose.

Domhnall Gleeson as General Hux could well be fleshed out and given Big Bad status in the next film. But I'd prefer Emo Kylo to just be the absolute worst and terrorize the entire galaxy before getting his comeuppance.

Loved/ Hated the injection of humor.

Hated that Maz Kanata was in it for about 13 seconds. She was a highlight of the last film.

Why was Benicio Del Toro in this movie? Loved the stutter, btw. Question the plot point.

Speaking of, my major gripe (and a HUGE plot hole) is the Holdo Maneuver retcon. If that were possible in earlier films, what would keep any enterprising rebel (or evil Empire tactician) from doing the same with drone ships? With ships strapped with bombs? Hell, earlier in the movie, why didn't/ wouldn't Poe have done the same with the bombers? Why wouldn't they have done it to the Death Star in the original? One pilot. One blown-up Death Star. True guerrilla war tactics.

[Caveat Emperor]

War is hell and if a franchise doesn’t want to take the easy way out it’s fine by me.

A lot can happen in 40 years.

I just can’t get behind a default position of “Luke can’t be tired and broken.”

Why not?

It's not that he "can't" be tired and broken, it's that the choice to make him a tired and broken character doesn't come from anything at all in the history of the character as we know it. It feels especially cheap because we're just told why this is the case and asked, as an audience, to just accept it happened -- which goes back to MWM's point about how this kinda ruins Luke Skywalker of the original movies. Everything about his journey feels suddenly pointless because of the way the tapestry gets unwoven off-screen immediately afterward.

Also, I get the idea "War is Hell," but that has never been the point of these films -- the series has always been about the idea of light/dark or good/evil. And, TBH, it was nice to have one pop culture respite from the relentless parade of moral grayness that dominates even your average popcorn flick nowadays.

[RedTeamGo!]

It's not that he "can't" be tired and broken, it's that the choice to make him a tired and broken character doesn't come from anything at all in the history of the character as we know it. It feels especially cheap because we're just told why this is the case and asked, as an audience, to just accept it happened -- which goes back to MWM's point about how this kinda ruins Luke Skywalker of the original movies. Everything about his journey feels suddenly pointless because of the way the tapestry gets unwoven off-screen immediately afterward.

Also, I get the idea "War is Hell," but that has never been the point of these films -- the series has always been about the idea of light/dark or good/evil. And, TBH, it was nice to have one pop culture respite from the relentless parade of moral grayness that dominates even your average popcorn flick nowadays.

It wasn’t immediately after, it was like 20 years after.

Look, I get it, you read the EU books, I did too. Those portrayals of Luke are not canon. You are basing all this luke stuff off of the EU, even if you won’t admit it, when really all we have to go off of is 3 movies wherein he is a flawed character.

[kaldaniels]

It wasn’t immediately after, it was like 20 years after.

Look, I get it, you read the EU books, I did too. Those portrayals of Luke are not canon. You are basing all this luke stuff off of the EU, even if you won’t admit it, when really all we have to go off of is 3 movies wherein he is a flawed character.

Exactly. Luke had what, 60-90 minutes of screen time in the first 3 movies and that somehow locks him into being a hero for the rest of his life?

[Caveat Emperor]

It wasn’t immediately after, it was like 20 years after.

Look, I get it, you read the EU books, I did too. Those portrayals of Luke are not canon. You are basing all this luke stuff off of the EU, even if you won’t admit it, when really all we have to go off of is 3 movies wherein he is a flawed character.

I dabbled a bit in the EU (too much of it read like bad fanfic) -- but I don't have near as much invested in it as some. And, what I did read of the EU portrayed Luke as mostly a screw-up when it came to his life after the movies. He lost students to the dark side, just like he did in the film, and I'm pretty sure (though it's been ~20 years since I read them) he even screwed up training one of Han & Leia's kids too, just like he did in the film.

You really can't dispute Luke is a flawed hero. He's portrayed consistently in the movies as impulsive and unwilling to see the bigger picture. He actively screws up multiple times, pretty majorly when it comes to training with Yoda. I was actually hoping they'd reference back to what Yoda told him on Dagobah in the Empire Strike's Back -- that leaving for Bespin to save Han & Leia would "destroy all for which they had fought and suffered." Which, arguably, ends up coming to pass -- as the Rebellion and overthrow of the Empire still ends up with the de-facto Empire in charge.

The problem is that they didn't make Luke a flawed hero in TLJ -- they just made him flawed (sans the "hero" portion). That's completely inconsistent with his character as written, even removing the EU source material and focusing only on what was shown on screen.

[RedTeamGo!]

I dabbled a bit in the EU (too much of it read like bad fanfic) -- but I don't have near as much invested in it as some. And, what I did read of the EU portrayed Luke as mostly a screw-up when it came to his life after the movies. He lost students to the dark side, just like he did in the film, and I'm pretty sure (though it's been ~20 years since I read them) he even screwed up training one of Han & Leia's kids too, just like he did in the film.

You really can't dispute Luke is a flawed hero. He's portrayed consistently in the movies as impulsive and unwilling to see the bigger picture. He actively screws up multiple times, pretty majorly when it comes to training with Yoda. I was actually hoping they'd reference back to what Yoda told him on Dagobah in the Empire Strike's Back -- that leaving for Bespin to save Han & Leia would "destroy all for which they had fought and suffered." Which, arguably, ends up coming to pass -- as the Rebellion and overthrow of the Empire still ends up with the de-facto Empire in charge.

The problem is that they didn't make Luke a flawed hero in TLJ -- they just made him flawed (sans the "hero" portion). That's completely inconsistent with his character as written, even removing the EU source material and focusing only on what was shown on screen.

He was a hero, though. He sacrificed his life to save the resistance.

[KittyDuran]

It's not that he "can't" be tired and broken, it's that the choice to make him a tired and broken character doesn't come from anything at all in the history of the character as we know it. It feels especially cheap because we're just told why this is the case and asked, as an audience, to just accept it happened -- which goes back to MWM's point about how this kinda ruins Luke Skywalker of the original movies. Everything about his journey feels suddenly pointless because of the way the tapestry gets unwoven off-screen immediately afterward.

Also, I get the idea "War is Hell," but that has never been the point of these films -- the series has always been about the idea of light/dark or good/evil. And, TBH, it was nice to have one pop culture respite from the relentless parade of moral grayness that dominates even your average popcorn flick nowadays.

Did you enjoy The Force Awakens? The last scenes with him on the isle shows a tired and broken Luke looking at Rey and the light sabre with pity. So his character at the start in TLJ was no surprise to me. But the defining Luke moment in TLJ were the scenes when he was projecting to confront Kylo (with a new haircut/dye job), using Han's lingo "See you around, kid.", buying time for the last of the alliance to get to safety, and then becoming one with the force. IMHO that was a wonderful ending to a true hero's journey. Thoughts?

[LoganBuck]

I dabbled a bit in the EU (too much of it read like bad fanfic) -- but I don't have near as much invested in it as some. And, what I did read of the EU portrayed Luke as mostly a screw-up when it came to his life after the movies. He lost students to the dark side, just like he did in the film, and I'm pretty sure (though it's been ~20 years since I read them) he even screwed up training one of Han & Leia's kids too, just like he did in the film.

You really can't dispute Luke is a flawed hero. He's portrayed consistently in the movies as impulsive and unwilling to see the bigger picture. He actively screws up multiple times, pretty majorly when it comes to training with Yoda. I was actually hoping they'd reference back to what Yoda told him on Dagobah in the Empire Strike's Back -- that leaving for Bespin to save Han & Leia would "destroy all for which they had fought and suffered." Which, arguably, ends up coming to pass -- as the Rebellion and overthrow of the Empire still ends up with the de-facto Empire in charge.

The problem is that they didn't make Luke a flawed hero in TLJ -- they just made him flawed (sans the "hero" portion). That's completely inconsistent with his character as written, even removing the EU source material and focusing only on what was shown on screen.

You and I are reading from the same page, and are definitely in agreement, but if you just took his role on (insert name of salt planet whatever it is called) even including his death, I am fine with it, but the Luke Skywalker from the first two thirds of this movie stunk.

Friend of mine who was traveling abroad, for business, came back last week, and went and saw TLJ yesterday. His first comment on Facebook, "What the heck was that?" He didn't like any of the Finn and Rose stuff, the handling of Luke Skywalker, or the Holdo stuff. Stuff he loved: Leia using the force to fly in space, BB8, and Rey and Kylo Ren's interactions. I told him, that he was the only person I knew who thought Leia flying in space was cool. He said we can't be friends anymore.

[BuckeyeRed27]

I dabbled a bit in the EU (too much of it read like bad fanfic) -- but I don't have near as much invested in it as some. And, what I did read of the EU portrayed Luke as mostly a screw-up when it came to his life after the movies. He lost students to the dark side, just like he did in the film, and I'm pretty sure (though it's been ~20 years since I read them) he even screwed up training one of Han & Leia's kids too, just like he did in the film.

You really can't dispute Luke is a flawed hero. He's portrayed consistently in the movies as impulsive and unwilling to see the bigger picture. He actively screws up multiple times, pretty majorly when it comes to training with Yoda. I was actually hoping they'd reference back to what Yoda told him on Dagobah in the Empire Strike's Back -- that leaving for Bespin to save Han & Leia would "destroy all for which they had fought and suffered." Which, arguably, ends up coming to pass -- as the Rebellion and overthrow of the Empire still ends up with the de-facto Empire in charge.

The problem is that they didn't make Luke a flawed hero in TLJ -- they just made him flawed (sans the "hero" portion). That's completely inconsistent with his character as written, even removing the EU source material and focusing only on what was shown on screen.

Yeah I don't know where you are getting that interpretation at all. He literally is the hero of this movie for saving what is left of the resistance and sacrificing himself so he can help Rey. The last scene with the kids is about him being a legend and inspiring others. Just because they gave him some character arc doesn't mean he was some broken loser.

[Kinsm]

Saw it yesterday, an overall okay film but nothing too special IMHO.

My flaws:

The hacker? A side story that really mattered not, didn't need a big name actor to play that part, and it should have had a conclusion (show him escaping or dying).

Snoke - Seemed short and pathetic, no back story whatsoever.

Rose - felt bland, probably needed a better actor/actress or a better written side/back story. Is she going to be Finn's squeeze?

The Resistance - they have people in all corners of the world but no one comes?

The entire chase scene by starships.

Admiral - come on, how do you let him go out like that.

Leia - Guardians of the Galaxy 2, what will kill her - a common cold in EP 9 like War of the Worlds?

First Order - seem like pussies, even more so than the trade Federation. Beef them up a little FFS.

Rey/Ben connection - Rey's parents are junkers?

R2, C3, and Chewy - I miss them all.

My biggest issue with 7 and 8 is lack of connection between the characters. Furthermore, I don't think they flow real well, I really want to see it with all the cut scenes in it. Rogue One was better in both regards.

[medford]

Finally saw The Last Jedi on Sunday. Obviously I'm not an over the top fan having waited this long to see it in the theater but I've seen the prior 7 as well as Rogue One (plus I had tons of action figures as a kid growing up in the 80s) so it was only a matter of time before I saw it.

Anyhoo, my wife, son and Daughter all liked it, there were several claps and what can only be perceived as positive responses from others in the theater, but personally I hated it. After thinking about a few days, my thoughts:

First, I loved how they used "light speed" to take down the star destroyer. I thought that was a really clever idea as well as visually very cool. However, it should have been Admiral that did the piloting on that bit. Holdo was a wasted character. Seriously, how in the world is she "2nd in command" but had to be introduced. When the "leader" has to step aside, it should be clear to the audience who is taking over the ship (should have been Admiral Ackbar) based upon past history rather than being told. Rather in implying doubts that they never played upon by introducing a new character to take over command, they could have provided that "voice of reason" for a long standing character. Could have been a better foothold for a conflict between Poe's brashness and Ackbar's steady hand. It also would have given Ackbar a much better ending to his story line if he had been the one to pilot the ship into the enemy.

Leia using the force to rescue herself was dumb as well. It would have been the perfect opportunity to use her death as a "disturbance" in the force that forces Luke to wake up his pansy bottom and get to work saving the universe. Instead you get Leia who comes off as weak thru the entire movie (as well as episode 7) and nothing driving Luke to reconsider things, to push thru his struggles and doubts and realize that he can save the universe again. Make no mistake, I think it was/is time for the original cast to be written off so that the story line can proceed forward but it has felt like the 3 main characters of episodes 4-6 now all seem so weak in hindsight, like they survived more on luck or good fortune than guts and will. Having Luke mentor Rey in some real/meaningful way would have made for a better story line for Rey (who's character I love)

Rose, if I'm not mistaken when she is first introduced she says something along the lines that she's just stuck behind the pipes all day and left there to monitor the escape hatches. Now all of a sudden she's piloting everything in sight?

What was the hole point of the Casino sequence.

For the first time in the history of Star Wars, fuel matters? They can make these massive ships fly at the speed of light, but they can't figure out how to track down a much smaller ship low on fuel?

I liked the scene where Ben kills Snoke, I though it was well put together, however the scene right after when he fought the Red Solider dudes left me again thinking "how the hell did this guy get so much power" In both 7 and 8 his fight scenes are weak, he's in the prime of his youth, and in control of the force, he should be one bad mother (shut your mouth) when it comes to fight scenes. Instead, Rey, who's barely learned what the force is kick's his butt in both movies. Ben is pathetic, I'm sure Vader would denounce him 3 times before the cock crows.

They need a better story line for Rey's parents, otherwise keep it a mystery. Perhaps she's the test tube off spring of Vader himself, long kept frozen in status until someone decides to use the embryo for their own means. Perhaps a long lost Skywalker cousin or somehow related to Obi-One. Anything better than what they gave, or just stay silent on the matter and keep it a mystery.

[LoganBuck]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8...ature=youtu.be

[bucksfan2]

Bumping this thread because I finally watched TLJ. Just some quick thoughts:

-Overall I enjoyed the movie. It was good entertainment.

-I didn't like the constant hologram things. I can't recall them being that relevant in Episodes IV-VII.

-I still hate the casting job of Kylo Ren. I think Adam Driver is a good actor, but doesn't come off as a strong enough heel.

-I am not sure I like the killing off of Luke while having Leia still around. We all know that Leia can't continue, why not keep Luke around for the final episode.

-More Poe Dameron, maybe my favorite character in the reboot.

-I liked the Rey/Finn dynamic from the last movie, don't quite understand the Rose/Finn dynamic.

-I wish Luke had been a stronger character, not a beaten down man. I can understand the exile but I didn't like how he was portrayed.

-Rey's parents, are they still yet to be reviewed? They have to be somebody important don't they?

[NebraskaRed]

Bumping this thread because I finally watched TLJ. Just some quick thoughts:

-Overall I enjoyed the movie. It was good entertainment.

-I didn't like the constant hologram things. I can't recall them being that relevant in Episodes IV-VII.

-I still hate the casting job of Kylo Ren. I think Adam Driver is a good actor, but doesn't come off as a strong enough heel.

-I am not sure I like the killing off of Luke while having Leia still around. We all know that Leia can't continue, why not keep Luke around for the final episode.

-More Poe Dameron, maybe my favorite character in the reboot.

-I liked the Rey/Finn dynamic from the last movie, don't quite understand the Rose/Finn dynamic.

-I wish Luke had been a stronger character, not a beaten down man. I can understand the exile but I didn't like how he was portrayed.

-Rey's parents, are they still yet to be reviewed? They have to be somebody important don't they?

I see what you're saying, but his actions at the end of the movie were the definition of strength and courage. He gave up his life to save the rebellion.