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Thread: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

  1. #46
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Yeah it's true that a great qb can make everyone else look better. It's also true that if there's enough good players they can make everyone else, including the qb, look better than they really are. I wouldn't put those three quarterbacks in the same category as Brady, Big Ben, Brees, Rodgers, or Warner.
    No, but they have all had great success behind bad O-Lines and mediocre WR's.

    It's so much easier to win a Super Bowl with a great QB and bad O-Line with mediocre WR's than a decent QB surrounded by greatness.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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  3. #47
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Part of me thinks that signing Bell would be (part of) the perfect scenario. It would fill a big need while taking a weapon from one of their biggest rivals. But, part of me thinks that if they're going to pay a lot to get a good free agent it should be for an offensive lineman and then a db. I just think that a good line (on offense or defense) is most important and then a strong defense.
    They did that in revamping the line last year with Zeitler and others. Skill positions are a major area of weakness with this team.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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  5. #48
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    They did that in revamping the line last year with Zeitler and others. Skill positions are a major area of weakness with this team.
    Do they have one of the best offensive lines? The war is won in the trenches. The receivers have been injured, inexperienced guys and Josh Gordon. They could always add to improve the group but rb seems like a bigger need than wr.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  6. #49
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Do they have one of the best offensive lines? The war is won in the trenches. The receivers have been injured, inexperienced guys and Josh Gordon. They could always add to improve the group but rb seems like a bigger need than wr.
    You canít fault the line for a rookie QB who was extremely raw and the other mess that Jackson ran out.

    The Vikings completely retooled their offensive line last season and are a serious contender for a super bowl. Itís apples and asparagus to discuss (Vikings defense is the key for their success), but itís who the line blocks for that tells their true value.

    I agree football is won in the trenches, but you canít judge the true value of it with the players they are blocking for.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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  8. #50
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    You canít fault the line for a rookie QB who was extremely raw and the other mess that Jackson ran out.

    The Vikings completely retooled their offensive line last season and are a serious contender for a super bowl. Itís apples and asparagus to discuss (Vikings defense is the key for their success), but itís who the line blocks for that tells their true value.

    I agree football is won in the trenches, but you canít judge the true value of it with the players they are blocking for.
    I don't fault the offensive line for all the problems on offense.That's on the front office. Hue couldn't start a better, more prepared, qb if he didn't have one. The offensive line is just another area that could be improved. That's all.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

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  10. #51
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    With the assets they have, you don't settle for Kizer. You draft the best QB in the draft per your scouts, you trade for the best QB you can, and you acquire another one who can legitimately compete to start. Nobody gets handed the job.
    If they acquire 2 QBs, Kizer is not going to get a chance to compete. It would signal they want to move on from him. if they really thought they'd found their franchise guy they wouldn't draft any QB high this yr.

  11. #52
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    If they acquire 2 QBs, Kizer is not going to get a chance to compete. It would signal they want to move on from him. if they really thought they'd found their franchise guy they wouldn't draft any QB high this yr.
    I would not give Kizer a chance to compete in camp this Summer with the assets Cleveland has to improve the prospects at that position.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  12. #53
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    Do they have one of the best offensive lines? The war is won in the trenches.
    Yep. It's the heart of your team. I cannot find the article I just read recently - pretty sure it was PFF which breaks down pass/run protection of O-lines - but Cleveland was 14th overall. I think they would have finished higher if not for the loss of Joe Thomas midway through the season. But that is a vast improvement over the last few years where they were simply atrocious/one of the worst in the NFL.

    The receivers have been injured, inexperienced guys and Josh Gordon. They could always add to improve the group but rb seems like a bigger need than wr.
    This team has been bad, and for quite some time, and on BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL (LOL). When it came to run/pass defense we're talking dead last in the NFL. They have heavily emphasized defense in the last few drafts, and it has shown improved results. This year? Total defense (14th), Rushing (7th), Pass (19th). But they have done so at the expense of the offensive side of the ball. It's just my opinion, but I think this was a purposeful decision by the FO because the issues facing this team were somewhat overwhelming, can't ALL be fixed at once, so they focused on one area (defense), and go from there.

    OK. Fine. But they've now reached that point where they have to address the offensive side. Dorsey is going into 2018 with a lot of resources at his disposal, and I believe that aspect of this team will have top priority. It has to. Finishing 2017 ... Total Offense (24th), rushing (18th), passing (22nd).... they actually improved in these areas.

    But here is the killer stat that defined the Cleveland Browns in 2017, and the main reason (IMO) why they finished 0-16 .......

    Give Away/ Take Away -28 (last in the NFL).
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  13. #54
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    I would not give Kizer a chance to compete in camp this Summer with the assets Cleveland has to improve the prospects at that position.
    Found this interesting ...... http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-b...op-of-the-list

    But the bottom-line is simply this, and it does buoy my optimism with Dorsey in charge ....

    It’s worth noting that the Chiefs' general manager who engineered the trade up to get Mahomes was John Dorsey, the man now in charge of the Browns' front office. And it’s also worth noting that Dorsey and coach Hue Jackson both liked Mahomes. Dorsey has conceded that the NFL is a quarterback-driven league, and his top priority is finding the team’s quarterback(s). The importance of the position precludes another position being selected, or a trade down lower than the No. 2 pick.
    But, as a Brown's fan, to be possibly facing the scenario in training camp of having three viable QBs present - maybe acquiring a solid vet, whoever they draft, and Kizer (and no, I haven't written him entirely off either, though he has an uphill battle) ....

    MY GAWD! Somebody pinch me, because I have to be dreaming (LOL).

    Because, as far as I'm concerned, the last truly, solid QB this team ever had was Brian Sipe (sorry Bernie)
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

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  15. #55
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Wouldn't surprise me to see Colt McCoy breakout big next year.
    Arise and walk, come through. A world beyond that door is calling out for you. Arise and walk, come through. It's calling out for you.

  16. #56
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    I would not give Kizer a chance to compete in camp this Summer with the assets Cleveland has to improve the prospects at that position.
    Oh I agree with you...but some wise man posted this on Sept 17th. I think you know him:

    Maybe clarify your opinion of Kizer. I repeated today what I said after his first preseason game which I repeated after his first regular season game: that the Browns have finally found their franchise QB. How Hue chooses to groom him will be the right way. He was right about him all along, so how can I disagree with him now?
    What happened to that franchise guy?

  17. #57
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Oh I agree with you...but some wise man posted this on Sept 17th. I think you know him:



    What happened to that franchise guy?
    Let it go, why do you keep spiking this ball?

    The ball has been spiked so much it is now flat.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  19. #58
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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Did someone mention Brian Sipe? Man, I loved those Browns teams he QB'd.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Oh I agree with you...but some wise man posted this on Sept 17th. I think you know him:



    What happened to that franchise guy?
    Things change. Only Mike Brown would fail to adapt to changes in reality, or take three decades to do it.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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    Re: 2018 Cleveland Browns...Rising from the Ashes (This time we mean it)

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Did someone mention Brian Sipe? Man, I loved those Browns teams he QB'd.
    Hey, Assembly Hall. We need to talk about Luck's health. Are they seriously going to go through another season wishing the problem would just go away by doing nothing? It's like watching the Blazers and Brandon Roy and Nate McMillain in a juggling act. The only possible outcome was an ugly one and in the meantime, everyone gets more gray hairs waiting for it to end.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."


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