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Thread: At what point...

  1. #61
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: At what point...

    Was it ok that Disco apparently lied when he said he was "fine?" I don't care but since we are pointing fingers....

    I came across a blurb somewhere earlier where apparently this injury was in a "back" oblique which is better than a "front" oblique (his 2016 injury). So there's that. I don't have my hopes up but Zack Davies injured his oblique last week and is back throwing today...so the timetable could be anything right now.

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  3. #62
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    You're missing the point.

    Disco was not fine.

    Again:

    Before saying anything he needed to check with his staff.

    So either Williams checked with the staff, and they missed what Brantley saw, or Williams never checked with his staff.
    You're missing the point.

    Anthony DeSclafani was on the record saying he felt fine.

    If Dick Williams calls him a liar, he loses. If Dick Williams says he's fine, he loses.

    And isn't it possible that Anthony DeSclafani felt that he was fine. That whatever happened wasn't actually bothering him much at all during the game, but then Saturday he woke up and it was acting up? I don't know about you, but that's certainly happened to me before. And IF that is the case, which might be why we didn't hear about it until Sunday, instead of Saturday, that it's even more of a lose-lose situation for Dick Williams because not only did he tell what the player said to everyone, and it was truthful to all of the knowledge of everyone, but that he's now being called a liar, or an idiot, because of it?

    There's a lot of possibilities here. You don't seem to care what any of them were. Dick Williams is an idiot, or a liar, no matter what happened. Right?

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  5. #63
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You're missing the point.

    Anthony DeSclafani was on the record saying he felt fine.

    If Dick Williams calls him a liar, he loses. If Dick Williams says he's fine, he loses.

    And isn't it possible that Anthony DeSclafani felt that he was fine. That whatever happened wasn't actually bothering him much at all during the game, but then Saturday he woke up and it was acting up? I don't know about you, but that's certainly happened to me before. And IF that is the case, which might be why we didn't hear about it until Sunday, instead of Saturday, that it's even more of a lose-lose situation for Dick Williams because not only did he tell what the player said to everyone, and it was truthful to all of the knowledge of everyone, but that he's now being called a liar, or an idiot, because of it?

    There's a lot of possibilities here. You don't seem to care what any of them were. Dick Williams is an idiot, or a liar, no matter what happened. Right?
    Players say they are fine to the press all the time, when they are not. If a GM is too scared to contradict a player on anything, when he knows the player is wrong, then he needs to resign and become a park ranger or something.

    But that really isn't the issue here.

    The issue is that Brantley saw something that it seems the Reds staff didn't see. And Williams was so sure Brantley was wrong, that he felt compelled to go to the radio booth and tell him that he was wrong. And it turns out Brantley wasn't wrong, he was right.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  6. #64
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    I laid it out pretty clearly in the first post I made.
    Yeah, but at no point in this thread did you offer any support for anything you've said. You basically say it's obvious that the Reds are behind the curve (you offer no support for this) and this causes them to have more/worse injuries than other teams (again, no support).

  7. #65
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Players say they are fine to the press all the time, when they are not. If a GM is too scared to contradict a player on anything, when he knows the player is wrong, then he needs to resign and become a park ranger or something.
    You have those discussions behind closed doors, you don't air that out on a tv/radio broadcast. Not going to be good for morale when your GM goes on the air saying "Oh, Disco said he was fine but I don't buy it, I think he is lying to me"

    This is conversation is getting about as ridiculous as the Ohtani thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Dick Williams is an idiot, or a liar, no matter what happened. Right?
    I think I found my new signature.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  8. #66
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    Re: At what point...

    The one thing that folks seem to be forgetting about is the fact that during the whole time that Brantley was harping that something was wrong with DeSclafani, he actually was looking pretty sharp. 3 innings, 1 hit, 1 walk, 1 K. Retired eight of the final nine batters he faced. Keeping the ball down ... getting ground balls. He was rolling - all the while Brantley was saying that something was wrong.

    My guess is that DW was right about the stadium radar gun being slow, and that DeSclafani didn't injure himself until the 3rd inning with the last couple hitters he faced.

    Otherwise, if DeSclafani pitched that well while being injured the entire game, maybe the entire staff ought to tweak their oblique muscle.
    "I can still throw it in the 70s. And I can throw it in the 80s if I don't want to comb my hair for a week." - Bob Feller at age 66 when asked how hard he could throw.

  9. #67
    Member Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Dick Williams is an idiot, or a liar, no matter what happened. Right?

    Last edited by Bob Sheed; 03-13-2018 at 09:56 AM.

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    Hoosier Red (03-13-2018),REDREAD (03-13-2018)

  11. #68
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Players say they are fine to the press all the time, when they are not. If a GM is too scared to contradict a player on anything, when he knows the player is wrong, then he needs to resign and become a park ranger or something.

    But that really isn't the issue here.

    The issue is that Brantley saw something that it seems the Reds staff didn't see. And Williams was so sure Brantley was wrong, that he felt compelled to go to the radio booth and tell him that he was wrong. And it turns out Brantley wasn't wrong, he was right.
    This is pure speculation.

  12. #69
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    You have those discussions behind closed doors, you don't air that out on a tv/radio broadcast. Not going to be good for morale when your GM goes on the air saying "Oh, Disco said he was fine but I don't buy it, I think he is lying to me"

    This is conversation is getting about as ridiculous as the Ohtani thing.
    You’re making my point.

    Dick Williams went out of his way to go to the media to tell them that Disco was fine. To contradict them, to tell them that they were wrong about Disco. There was no need for him to tell them anything. Why did he think that was necessary. Especially when the media was not wrong, when Disco was hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    This is pure speculation.
    Brantley thought something was wrong with Disco that night. He was right. Zero speculation.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  13. #70
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    The one thing that folks seem to be forgetting about is the fact that during the whole time that Brantley was harping that something was wrong with DeSclafani, he actually was looking pretty sharp. 3 innings, 1 hit, 1 walk, 1 K. Retired eight of the final nine batters he faced. Keeping the ball down ... getting ground balls. He was rolling - all the while Brantley was saying that something was wrong.

    My guess is that DW was right about the stadium radar gun being slow, and that DeSclafani didn't injure himself until the 3rd inning with the last couple hitters he faced.

    Otherwise, if DeSclafani pitched that well while being injured the entire game, maybe the entire staff ought to tweak their oblique muscle.
    Now this is pure speculation, lol.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  14. #71
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    You’re making my point.

    Dick Williams went out of his way to go to the media to tell them that Disco was fine. To contradict them, to tell them that they were wrong about Disco. There was no need for him to tell them anything. Why did he think that was necessary. Especially when the media was not wrong, when Disco was hurt.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Brantley thought something was wrong with Disco that night. He was right. Zero speculation.
    Why do I even bother?

  15. #72
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    You’re making my point.

    Dick Williams went out of his way to go to the media to tell them that Disco was fine. To contradict them, to tell them that they were wrong about Disco. There was no need for him to tell them anything. Why did he think that was necessary. Especially when the media was not wrong, when Disco was hurt.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Brantley thought something was wrong with Disco that night. He was right. Zero speculation.
    You always think everyone is always making your point...it is quite amazing.

    His player said he was fine, DW was repeating what his player said. At this point everyone was speculating. The GM stood by his player, nothing wrong with that. They can hash out the details behind closed doors and figure out more info. Why is this such a big deal beside just wanting to find something else to complain about DW for?
    Last edited by Griffey012; 03-13-2018 at 11:09 AM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  17. #73
    Member Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: At what point...

    Quote Originally Posted by NebraskaRed View Post
    Yeah, but at no point in this thread did you offer any support for anything you've said. You basically say it's obvious that the Reds are behind the curve (you offer no support for this) and this causes them to have more/worse injuries than other teams (again, no support).
    As a franchise they are behind the curve because of on field results, and so I'm speculating that might also be true medically - I don't think I said they have more/worse injuries than other teams anywhere. It would be weird if I had, because I don't think that. I think they play shorthanded a lot for what turns out to be no reason and worsen existing situations by doing dumb stuff like not going easier on pitchers.
    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." - H. L. Mencken

  18. #74
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: At what point...

    It’s either fake news or there was a second shooter.

    Zip-a-dee-doo-dah, zip-a-dee-ay

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  20. #75
    Overton Window Breaker WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: At what point...

    I saw this little snippet:

    Jon Morosi
    @jonmorosi

    Spoke with #BlueJays GM Ross Atkins by phone a short time ago. He said the team doesn’t have an update yet on Anthony Alford’s right hamstring injury but is confident he will be back “very quickly.” @MLB @MLBNetwork
    5:10pm · 13 Mar 2018
    Don't hamstrings need time to fully heal? Either the GM is delaying the inevitable time that Alford will be out, or the Blue Jays medical staff is giving rosy prognoses.

    I only post this to show that other teams sometimes dance around medical issues as well.
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov

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