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Thread: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

  1. #91
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Maybe it is just me, but his comments seemed to have a tone of "I know the Reds want me to work on limiting my walks, but I don't really agree with them, my walks aren't a big deal in my opinion". That's not the proper mindset when you are walking 5-6 guys per 9.
    Stephenson said twice in the interview, in words or substance, that he knows he should limit walks and baserunners and work on fastball command.

    Again, the problem isn’t how he expresses the issue, the problem is how he pitches. He understands that walks are bad, believe me.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-16-2018 at 11:33 AM.

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  4. #92
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Stephenson said twice in the interview that he knows he has to limit walks.
    Yes, but that sounds to me like "I know that's what they tell me I have to do, but..."

  5. #93
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Stephenson said twice in the interview, in words or substance, that he knows he should limit walks and baserunners and work on fastball command.

    Again, the problem isnt how he expresses the issue, the problem is how he pitches. He understands that walks are bad, believe me.
    Does it really carry any substance when it is surrounded by the likes of "I agree to an extent" and "but at the same time, I dont think that they are the most important things ever.

    I'd like to lose 15 pounds, but at the same time it's not the most important thing ever and I like beer and pizza on the weekends. Now does that appear like I really want to lose 15 pounds?
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  7. #94
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    He isn't wrong when he says (keeping down) walks aren't the most in the world. But if you are going to have that issue, you better be able to throw harder than Stephenson does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Does it really carry any substance when it is surrounded by the likes of "I agree to an extent" and "but at the same time, I don’t think that they are the most important things ever.

    I'd like to lose 15 pounds, but at the same time it's not the most important thing ever and I like beer and pizza on the weekends. Now does that appear like I really want to lose 15 pounds?
    I don't agree with the comparison, because throwing quality strikes isn't a choice like eating pizza and beer is. I get what you are saying, as the comments are a bit puzzling for a guy that has had walk problems all throughout the minors. Lost in this, is that walks are the walk, and byproduct of bad command. If Bobby could throw well located strikes, and his out pitches (out of the zone) were well enough located to get swings out of hitters, then the walks would start to go away. Its not a choice he's making, he just doesn't have strong enough command.

    Like, if he decided that walks were the end all be all of the matter, he might start throwing more strikes, but his command would be so bad in the zone he could prove to be quite hittable and prone to mistake pitches within the zone, and the home run rate spike up. There is a cause and effect, and its not as easy as getting the list of byproducts in the correct order.

    I dsiagree with most of his quotes, but I think he is attempting to work on the right things, and could get himself to the same point. It personally looks to me like major league quality command just isn't in his skillset.

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  11. #96
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Does it really carry any substance when it is surrounded by the likes of "I agree to an extent" and "but at the same time, I don’t think that they are the most important things ever.

    I'd like to lose 15 pounds, but at the same time it's not the most important thing ever and I like beer and pizza on the weekends. Now does that appear like I really want to lose 15 pounds?
    Stephenson was drafted in 2011- seven years ago - and thrown 664 minor league innings. I'd guess he's worked on control longer, and with more pitching coaches, than anyone in the organization. He simply has difficulty incorporating the mechanics/skills needed to throw strikes consistently.

    Some athletes have difficulty incorporating certain changes to natural tendencies. We've all experienced it. We naturally do certain physical tasks the wrong way and can't overcome that.

    These challenges to his attitude assume he's pitched 700 innings with indifference and apathy and I just don't buy it. In my mind he's missing one skill, it's difficult for him, and it's possible he won't lick the problem. Hope he does.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-16-2018 at 12:54 PM.

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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    I don't agree with the comparison, because throwing quality strikes isn't a choice like eating pizza and beer is. I get what you are saying, as the comments are a bit puzzling for a guy that has had walk problems all throughout the minors. Lost in this, is that walks are the walk, and byproduct of bad command. If Bobby could throw well located strikes, and his out pitches (out of the zone) were well enough located to get swings out of hitters, then the walks would start to go away. Its not a choice he's making, he just doesn't have strong enough command.

    Like, if he decided that walks were the end all be all of the matter, he might start throwing more strikes, but his command would be so bad in the zone he could prove to be quite hittable and prone to mistake pitches within the zone, and the home run rate spike up. There is a cause and effect, and its not as easy as getting the list of byproducts in the correct order.

    I dsiagree with most of his quotes, but I think he is attempting to work on the right things, and could get himself to the same point. It personally looks to me like major league quality command just isn't in his skillset.
    Oh I agree with what you say here. I definitely don't think it is as simple as him just choosing to throw more strikes. My example was simply to point out his words were a bit hollow, to me, in terms of listening, following, and understanding the direction coming from the Reds when he immediately surrounds them with things like "I agree to an extent" and "but, it's not the most important thing ever."
    Last edited by Griffey012; 05-16-2018 at 01:19 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Stephenson was drafted in 2011- seven years ago - and thrown 664 minor league innings. I'd guess he's worked on control longer, and with more pitching coaches, than anyone in the organization. He simply has difficulty incorporating the mechanics/skills needed to throw strikes consistently.

    Some athletes have difficulty incorporating certain changes to natural tendencies. We've all experienced it. We naturally do certain physical tasks the wrong way and can't overcome that.

    These challenges to his attitude assume he's pitched 700 innings with indifference and apathy and I just don't buy it. In my mind he's missing one skill, it's difficult for him, and it's possible he won't lick the problem. Hope he does.
    My "challenge" to his attitude/comments is that it doesn't really seem like he buys into the importance of walks and agree with the coaching staff about it. I know he is trying to improve command, I'm not doubting that, and I am sure it has been incredibly frustrating for him.

    His comments lead me to believe somewhere along the lines either the Reds aren't laying out the importance of walks in a way that is resonating with him, such as how RedsManRick so eloquently did, or he is pretty much dismissing them as something he doesn't see as that important even though the Reds do.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 05-16-2018 at 01:25 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  15. #99
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    It's not our job to be as confused as Robert Stephenson.
    Wait until the year after next year.

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  17. #100
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    My "challenge" to his attitude/comments is that it doesn't really buy into the importance of walks and agree with the coaching staff about it. I know he is trying to improve command, I'm not doubting that, and I am sure it has been incredibly frustrating for him.

    His comments lead me to believe somewhere along the lines either the Reds aren't laying out the importance of walks in a way that is resonating with him, such as how RedsManRick so eloquently did, or he is pretty much dismissing them as something he doesn't see as that important even though the Reds do.
    It's impossible for me to believe that Stephenson, who seems like an intelligent young man, has pitched for 7 years and 700 innings, professionally, and doesn't understand the impact of walking people.

    His comments are those of an athlete dealing with a persistent problem that he can't lick. He doesn't want to overemphasize it. He also doesn't want to get consumed with it in his future outings.

    I know there's a strong desire to find an explanation for his walks. Attitude. Blame the Reds' development, some like to go there. I think he's just a pitcher with excellent stuff but who can't figure out how to consistently hit his spot. He isn't the first guy.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-16-2018 at 01:33 PM.

  18. #101
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    I think it is pretty simple: with as good of stuff as Stephenson has I want his strong primarily focus not giving up free passes, and his comments don't reflect that. If he gives up less walks and more hits, I find it more encouraging than going along the same path since 2013.

  19. #102
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    The problem that Stephenson doesn’t understand is that walking too many guys is a result of not having enough command of the pitches he throws. He may be able to get by with poor command at the minor league level in term of hits and HR allowed, but he will not at th major league level.

    If he works on limiting his walks, he is working on improving his command, which will make him a better overall pitcher. He doesn’t seem to understand that, or not want to understand that. To me, it sounds like he thinks he is good enough to pitch in the majors as is, simply because he’s not giving up too many hits in AAA. This is a problem, because it sounds like he’s not willing to work to get better.
    The team Matheny described several times this weekend as the team he thinks the Cardinals could be, is actually the team the Reds have become.

  20. #103
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    ok so, let's look at his career and notably this year.

    Year Age Tm Lev Aff W L ERA RAvg G GS GF CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP WP WHIP H9 HR9 BB9 SO9 SO/W
    2012 19 2 Teams A-Rk CIN 3 4 3.18 4.71 15 15 0 0 0 65.0 54 34 23 6 23 0 72 4 12 1.185 7.5 0.8 3.2 10.0 3.13
    2012 19 Dayton A CIN 2 4 4.19 6.03 8 8 0 0 0 34.1 32 23 16 4 15 0 35 3 5 1.369 8.4 1.0 3.9 9.2 2.33
    2012 19 Billings Rk CIN 1 0 2.05 3.23 7 7 0 0 0 30.2 22 11 7 2 8 0 37 1 7 0.978 6.5 0.6 2.3 10.9 4.63
    2013 20 3 Teams A-A+-AA CIN 7 7 2.99 3.86 22 22 0 0 0 114.1 92 49 38 10 35 0 136 3 12 1.111 7.2 0.8 2.8 10.7 3.89
    2013 20 Pensacola AA CIN 0 2 4.86 5.40 4 4 0 0 0 16.2 17 10 9 2 13 0 18 0 1 1.800 9.2 1.1 7.0 9.7 1.38
    2013 20 Bakersfield A+ CIN 2 2 3.05 3.92 4 4 0 0 0 20.2 19 9 7 3 2 0 22 0 1 1.016 8.3 1.3 0.9 9.6 11.00
    2013 20 Dayton A CIN 5 3 2.57 3.51 14 14 0 0 0 77.0 56 30 22 5 20 0 96 3 10 0.987 6.5 0.6 2.3 11.2 4.80
    2014 21 Pensacola AA CIN 7 10 4.74 5.33 27 26 0 0 0 136.2 114 81 72 18 74 0 140 5 9 1.376 7.5 1.2 4.9 9.2 1.89
    2015 22 2 Teams AA-AAA CIN 8 11 3.83 4.10 25 25 0 1 0 134.0 104 61 57 10 70 0 140 6 10 1.299 7.0 0.7 4.7 9.4 2.00
    2015 22 Louisville AAA CIN 4 4 4.04 4.04 11 11 0 0 0 55.2 51 25 25 2 27 0 51 2 5 1.401 8.2 0.3 4.4 8.2 1.89
    2015 22 Pensacola AA CIN 4 7 3.68 4.14 14 14 0 1 0 78.1 53 36 32 8 43 0 89 4 5 1.226 6.1 0.9 4.9 10.2 2.07
    2016 23 CIN MLB CIN 2 3 6.08 6.32 8 8 0 0 0 37.0 41 26 25 9 19 1 31 4 2 1.622 10.0 2.2 4.6 7.5 1.63
    2016 23 Louisville AAA CIN 8 9 4.41 4.74 24 24 0 1 0 136.2 115 72 67 17 71 0 120 3 5 1.361 7.6 1.1 4.7 7.9 1.69
    2017 24 CIN MLB CIN 5 6 4.68 5.53 25 11 6 0 0 84.2 81 52 44 12 53 3 86 2 5 1.583 8.6 1.3 5.6 9.1 1.62
    2017 24 Louisville AAA CIN 1 2 3.79 3.79 8 7 0 0 0 40.1 27 17 17 8 13 0 45 0 2 0.992 6.0 1.8 2.9 10.0 3.46
    2018 25 Louisville AAA CIN 2 4 3.93 4.91 7 7 0 0 0 36.2 25 20 16 5 25 0 40 2 3 1.364 6.1 1.2 6.1 9.8 1.60

    He's got the same number of IP this year at AAA as last year. And his BB rate has doubled. You cannot keep putting baserunners on and expect in your head to throw 3 hitters with no HR's when you give up a HR+ every 9 IP. He's allowing 13+ baserunners per 9 IP. No one can be successful like that.
    "There was like a softness to it, a glow to it. I felt... I felt warm."

    -- Joseph Daniel Votto 7/10/2017

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  22. #104
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    This guy is going to end up a throw-in in a larger trade.
    Go Gators!

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  24. #105
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    Re: Expectations for Robert Stephenson?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    This guy is going to end up a throw-in in a larger trade.
    Yeah that's where I see the BobSteve saga ultimately ending, someone else will see if they can try and fix him.
    I dont care, Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. Hes in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.

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