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Thread: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

  1. #46
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    What a happy ending.

    Hey Texas, don’t mess with Ohio.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    This is fantastic. It was also the obvious answer for the past 18 months, but couldn’t be happier it’s actually coming together!

  4. #48
    Member Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Is this the first time fans actually won in a situation like this?
    “When I use a word,” Trumpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Trumpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

  5. #49
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Good for Crew fans. Ridiculous that this is how professional sports in America works.
    Fixed that for you.

    This is actually an amazing turn of events. These “Save our team” things rarely ever work.
    Cincinnati Here We Go.
    29 Years and Counting...

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  7. #50
    Are we not men? Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    The interesting part of today's developments is that, beyond the Haslams, they have local Columbus investors in the Edwards family, who I understand, are not only big in Columbus real estate, but also have been season ticket holders since day one. They apparently also have friendly relationships with the Schottensteins. Saw a tweet today from Brian Schottenstein that hinted at a land offer. Contrast this with stories I've heard from insiders who have said that, when Precourt bought the Crew, the Schottensteins talked about setting up a meeting with him, but his people told them he was unavailable for the next 6 months, but would be happy to set up a teleconference with them. Needless to say, the Schottensteins declined to renew their seats and withdrew any support for Columbus Crew SC under PSV.

    Looking forward to the first Hell Is Real Derby match with FC Cincinnati.
    Wear gaudy colors, or avoid display. Lay a million eggs or give birth to one. The fittest shall survive, yet the unfit may live. Be like your ancestors or be different. We must repeat!

  8. #51
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Fixed that for you.
    Sure, but let's not pretend it's anything but perverse.

    "Hey honey, I'm going to ditch you after 23 years, but--here--marry my brother. He's paying me a lot of money for you."
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  9. #52
    Are we not men? Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Is this the first time fans actually won in a situation like this?
    Can't say that I recall it happening elsewhere. But then the Save the Crew Movement really put in the work, from organizing protests, to doing it's own research to debunk the claims of non-support coming from Precourt and Don Garber, canvassing Columbus-area businesses to show that there is indeed support from the business community, promoting ticket sales, and starting the season ticket pledge drive to show that there are plenty of people who would by season tickets if Precourt is gone. And these people did it all in their spare time.

    Of course, there were some factors that worked in the favor of STC. First is that Precourt and his henchmen completely bungled the MLS to Austin deal. Not having all their ducks in a row before news leaked was bad enough. But then trying to create an astroturf local campaign and sending in some of the most inept corporate shills to try and get political support for a stadium deal probably doesn't endear you to the other "Investor/Operators" in the league. I mean, how bad do you have to be to create a "local" supporters campaign that purports to be a group of Austinites interested in bringing MLS to the city, but then gets caught out posting Twitter updates from Columbus when the person in the Crew FO responsible for managing the MLS2ATX "group" forgot to turn off their location data when posting to Twitter. And having David Greeley, who was a disaster when he worked for the Chicago Fire, as your point man on getting a stadium deal done? You have to wonder if the other Investor/Operators were watching PSV bungle things and end up not a stadium location anywhere near the desired downtown location and were losing their patience with him.

    The second factor is definitely the Modell Law. I think when the Ohio AG's office and the City of Columbus brought suit under the law and the league failed to get a quick dismissal, it started to make the other MLS owners, especially those with interests in other pro sports leagues, a bit nervous. I've heard that, the longer the lawsuit dragged on, the more concerned the owners, and outside interests from other pro sports leagues started getting that the case could make it to the discovery phase. They may well want to challenge that Modell law, but not with PSV as their primary representative. People who were present at the hearing on PSV and MLS' motion to dismiss said that attorneys from MLS ran the show and basically treated the PSV lawyers like persona non grata.

    All in all, it looks like it's going to good for Columbus and Crew fans. Hopefully Haslam as a soccer owner will be more Arthur Blank and less Kraft or Kroenke. Sources indicate the Haslams and Edwards intend on putting soccer people in charge of running the team. If they're willing to invest in the team and the community, maybe Columbus can go from being one of the red-headed step children of MLS to being one of the league's stronger clubs. I imagine having a rival down the road that also seems to be intent on investing the time and money to build a strong club will be good for the Crew, FC Cincinnati and the league as a whole.

    Bring on #HellIsReal.
    Wear gaudy colors, or avoid display. Lay a million eggs or give birth to one. The fittest shall survive, yet the unfit may live. Be like your ancestors or be different. We must repeat!

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  11. #53
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    The Modell law and PSV's blatant bad faith definitely created pressure. I'll add that MLS' single-entity structure did too. It put the league in the crosshairs of the potential legal action (and it had clearly aided and abetted PSV).
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  12. #54
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The Modell law and PSV's blatant bad faith definitely created pressure. I'll add that MLS' single-entity structure did too. It put the league in the crosshairs of the potential legal action (and it had clearly aided and abetted PSV).
    While litigation can always go in unexpected ways, I would have been capital-S Shocked if Modell's Law would've held up in court. It's almost a textbook example of a restraint on interstate commerce as written.

    I assume the PR surrounding this got so abysmally toxic that MLS was eager to find a "Make all sides happy" way out.
    Cincinnati Here We Go.
    29 Years and Counting...

  13. #55
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    While litigation can always go in unexpected ways, I would have been capital-S Shocked if Modell's Law would've held up in court. It's almost a textbook example of a restraint on interstate commerce as written.
    I dunno, I'm not a lawyer but I've read there's something there with the public funds component. These franchises could easily opt out by not taking public money.

    But regardless, the point was to slow everything down and make the process more painful, and I think it succeeded there.
    “When I use a word,” Trumpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Trumpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

  14. #56
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    While litigation can always go in unexpected ways, I would have been capital-S Shocked if Modell's Law would've held up in court. It's almost a textbook example of a restraint on interstate commerce as written.

    I assume the PR surrounding this got so abysmally toxic that MLS was eager to find a "Make all sides happy" way out.
    It's a shaky law, but good politics. No one wants to be the league to challenge it. Once the quick dismissal failed, it became a no-win trial. MLS was going to be exposed as a pack of greedy, lying SOBs. I mean, we know that, but they don't need it laid out in exhaustive detail. That would be terrible for business.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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  16. #57
    Are we not men? Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    It's a shaky law, but good politics. No one wants to be the league to challenge it. Once the quick dismissal failed, it became a no-win trial. MLS was going to be exposed as a pack of greedy, lying SOBs. I mean, we know that, but they don't need it laid out in exhaustive detail. That would be terrible for business.
    There's definitely some issues with the law that could bring a constitutional challenge, but I think the bigger issue is the vagueness of the language rather than any violation of the Commerce Clause. Better sports business lawyers than I have said that the acceptance of public funds/public benefit would be the factor that takes it out of a commerce clause discussion. However, the requirement to entertain reasonable offers from local ownership at fair market value may potentially be a stumbling block for the law, as it could be void for vagueness and could also violate the Constitution as a "taking" without just compensation.

    The issue here, to expound upon the "bad for business" aspect you mentioned, and this is where Single Entity probably played into Save The Crew's favor, is that it was looking like the case was going to go to the discovery phase. One of the Precourt bungles, and probably why MLS completely took over the litigation and basically pushed PSV's lawyers to the side, was that, when the suit was filed, Precourt identified himself on social media and elsewhere as the "owner" of Columbus Crew SC. It wasn't until after the suit was filed that Precourt (probably after a stern talking to from league offices) changed everything to say "Investor/Operator." To even answer the question of who would be the proper "owner" of the Crew to determine who the law might apply to would require discovery into the Single Entity ownership structure. That's huge right there. If you think about it, imagine if this were a suit against an NFL or MLB team? Now if the court allows discovery into who owns the team in those cases, the discovery would be compartmentalized, limited strictly to that team. But in Single Entity MLS, that discovery request could open up a whole can of worms. You're basically looking into how the entire league structures it's ownership, which has ramifications beyond just the Modell Law. I would think the players union would find such information particularly interesting when it comes time to renegotiate the CBA. Ownership in MLS isn't just limited to the league itself, but also includes shares in Soccer United Marketing, which is where all the real money is, since that involves the TV revenues brought in by the National Teams as well.

    An interesting tidbit I've heard is that Arthur Blank, the Hunts, and the Krafts have been in the Save The Crew camp, although they did not recruit the Haslams themselves (Alex Fischer of the Columbus Partnership has ties to the Haslams from his days in Tennessee). It wouldn't surprise me. I suspect the NFL owners, if they were to decide to challenge the Modell Law, would probably prefer to do it when an NFL team (say, for example, the Bengals when their PBS lease is up) is looking to move, if only because there is much less exposure to owners in the league beyond the owner of the team in question. On the other hand, the one owner I've heard has probably been in MLS2ATX camp is Merritt Paulson of the Timbers. I've heard Precourt has been pretty buddy/buddy with Paulson and that Paulson recommended David Greeley to Precourt. I'd love to know who else among the MLS Investor/Operators was in what camp. I have a suspicion that some of the smaller, less wealthy owners may have been in the "Move the Crew" camp in hopes that it would raise the value of their portfolio, whereas owners with interests beyond MLS (see NFL owners) may have been more concerned with what continued litigation could mean to their other interests.
    Wear gaudy colors, or avoid display. Lay a million eggs or give birth to one. The fittest shall survive, yet the unfit may live. Be like your ancestors or be different. We must repeat!

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  18. #58
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    So, spur of the moment, have managed to work it out to fly back for the playoff game Saturday, my son can't make it, but my wife can, so she and I will make a fun short weekend of it. Will be third time at a FC Cincinnati game this year. So much fun.
    Last edited by membengal; 10-18-2018 at 04:22 PM.

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  20. #59
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    An interesting tidbit I've heard is that Arthur Blank, the Hunts, and the Krafts have been in the Save The Crew camp, although they did not recruit the Haslams themselves (Alex Fischer of the Columbus Partnership has ties to the Haslams from his days in Tennessee). It wouldn't surprise me.
    I informed my ticket rep that I wouldn't by buying tix next season if the league screwed Columbus out of a team. I know there was a movement afoot to exert pressure on other teams. Wonder if some of them felt it.
    Last edited by M2; 10-18-2018 at 04:23 PM.
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  22. #60
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    Re: Cincinnati soccer/MLS

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I informed my ticket rep that I wouldn't by buying tix next season if the league screwed Columbus out of a team.
    Thank you!
    “When I use a word,” Trumpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Trumpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”


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