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Thread: Hunter Greene

  1. #1
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Hunter Greene

    Replying to Doug and Griffey’s comments here:

    “Or maybe he’s just an 18 year old pitcher”

    Why was he rushed to Dayton if he wasn’t ready? Or, even worse, how did the Reds development staff not recognize he’s not ready for Dayton?

    “Who sat out his senior year”

    Again, why was he rushed to Dayton with this knowledge?

    Why does the Reds development staff have so much trouble with pitchers?
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  4. #2
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    RTG, can you provide evidence based on things that happened prior to the 2018 season, that show Hunter Greene was not ready to pitch in Dayton? Having hindsight doesn't work here because you're using data points completely unavailable to the people making said decision.

  5. #3
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    RTG, can you provide evidence based on things that happened prior to the 2018 season, that show Hunter Greene was not ready to pitch in Dayton? Having hindsight doesn't work here because you're using data points completely unavailable to the people making said decision.
    Can you provide evidence he was ready? Sorry, 5 spring training innings don’t count.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  7. #4
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Can you provide evidence he was ready? Sorry, 5 spring training innings don’t count.
    It goes back to coddle thy pitchers for me. Err on the side of caution. And if the organization wants to operate counter to that, then it better work. There's no excuse for having a teenage pitcher struggling in A ball. It absolutely calls into question the team's developmental braintrust.

    It's great the Reds have Hunter Greene, but is Hunter Greene in the right hands? I can't say with any confidence that he is.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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  9. #5
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Can you provide evidence he was ready? Sorry, 5 spring training innings don’t count.
    I can not. I'm not claiming he was, though.

  10. #6
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I can not. I'm not claiming he was, though.
    The Reds have people paid to get these calls right. Criticism comes with the paycheck when they get it wrong.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Perhaps it's not the worst thing in the world for an 18 year-old Superman to get a dose of humility. Obviously, we'd all prefer for him to dominate at every level on the way to the Hall of Fame, but it might be okay for him to realize that other guys are good at this game, too, and it's going to take more than just his natural ability for him to thrive. He may have thought he believed that before, but he should certainly understand it now.

    Four starts in April for an 18 year-old is a minor speed bump.

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  14. #8
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    The Reds have people paid to get these calls right. Criticism comes with the paycheck when they get it wrong.
    Certainly.

    I just feel like there should be something that clearly suggest there was a reason the Reds should have known this was going to happen with the way some people are wording things.

    When they sent Jose Siri to Dayton in 2016, that was one of those "are you guys drunk?!" things because there was clear and overwhelming evidence that showed it was very probably he'd have no chance to succeed at that point in time.

    Hunter Greene doesn't really have that kind of red flag. Now, maybe you can say "how do we know because he didn't pitch", and sure, there's something there. But if "we don't know" is the response, then I wouldn't be so aggressive with the criticism like they should have absolutely have known.

    Also, he's had 3 tough games in a row. And really, the one before today wasn't really that bad if you watched the game.

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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Can you provide evidence he was ready? Sorry, 5 spring training innings don’t count.
    Can you provide evidence that he wasn't? 8 Low A innings (so far) don't count

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  17. #10
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I just feel like there should be something that clearly suggest there was a reason the Reds should have known this was going to happen with the way some people are wording things.
    I'm not interested in lawyering other posters' wording. I'm interested in the Reds properly developing Hunter Greene and he's above his head at the moment.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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  19. #11
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBruceFan View Post
    Can you provide evidence that he wasn't? 8 Low A innings (so far) don't count
    I get it’s a small sample size, but I would like to point out if he had been pitching well it would be more like 16 innings. It took him 55 pitches to go 1.2 innings today.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  21. #12
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Coddle. Thy. Pitchers.

    It's worth noting that the Reds have another power pitching right-hander in the organization who had control problems his first couple years but has settled down considerably. Santillan is worth looking at as both evidence that the Reds can develop high school pitchers and the arc that Greene's development might take.

    That said...I think the Reds' strength is developing hitters and they ought to take a hitter at #5 in the upcoming draft.
    The world is a messy place. People are inconsistent and complicated. Maybe we should see how different things could be if we gave grace and forgiveness to our fellow human beings when they fail to be perfect in our eyes. -- me

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  23. #13
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Perhaps it's not the worst thing in the world for an 18 year-old Superman to get a dose of humility. Obviously, we'd all prefer for him to dominate at every level on the way to the Hall of Fame, but it might be okay for him to realize that other guys are good at this game, too, and it's going to take more than just his natural ability for him to thrive. He may have thought he believed that before, but he should certainly understand it now.

    Four starts in April for an 18 year-old is a minor speed bump.
    I'm going to argue it's not minor. Players don't develop when they're completely overmatched. This is beyond humility, and it invites him to overthrow as a way of getting out of the messes in which he consistently finds himself. If you wanted to create a scenario for how to injure a young pitcher, this would be it.

    They can't allow this to continue much longer. Either Greene pulls it together and gets himself to semi-respectable or they've got to pull the plug on him him in A ball.
    Friends don't let friends fWAR.

    Coddle thy pitchers.

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    REDREAD (05-03-2018)

  25. #14
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Are there any studies that pitchers should be coddled any more that hitters should be? (not usage question but level and age question)

  26. #15
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Hunter Greene

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I'm going to argue it's not minor. Players don't develop when they're completely overmatched. This is beyond humility, and it invites him to overthrow as a way of getting out of the messes in which he consistently finds himself. If you wanted to create a scenario for how to injure a young pitcher, this would be it.

    They can't allow this to continue much longer. Either Greene pulls it together and gets himself to semi-respectable or they've got to pull the plug on him him in A ball.
    Can you define what pulling it together would look like?


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