Ohio State Football - 2018 (Pre-Season and Urban Meyer controversy)

[GAC]

As far as why was he fired now, he violated the protection order this time. In 2015 he was not charged with anything. The Powell police have been less than forthcoming about the situation, so my guess is that the OSU report will state that the school tried to investigate but was not given sufficient cooperation to make a determination to terminate Zach Smith in 2015.

And the above is a strong possibility. The Powell police have been very staunch in their refusal to release police records of that 2015 incident.

http://www.dispatch.com/news/2018080...ing-zach-smith

Powell Police Chief Gary Vest said he was forbidden from releasing more details on the case, including investigative notes, interviews, pictures or recordings, on the advice of attorney Ben Albrecht, who is representing the city in the matter.....

According to Albrecht, an uncharged suspect, presumably Mr. Smith, cannot be identified, regardless of how long a case is open...

Chief Vest has said his officers met with officials from the Delaware County prosecutors office, which ruled there was insufficient evidence to file felony charges.

The city maintains the suspect “was investigated and believed to have committed an offense, but was not charged/arrested,” according to Megan Canavan, city spokeswoman.

And on the other hand ....

Open-records experts argue that unless a case is being “actively investigated” it is considered closed, and that Mr. Smith already has been identified by city officials through other public records and in media reports.

“If they (police) haven’t done anything in a couple of years, then they should release the case file,” said Dennis Hetzel, executive director of the Ohio News Media Association. “It’s obvious who the uncharged suspect is. I think it’s kind of disingenuous on their part to withhold it.”

When interviewed recently, Zach stated that Gene Smith knew about the 2015 allegations ...

https://www.si.com/college-football/...ith-ohio-state

In a radio interview with Colombus's 105.7 The Zone on Friday, Zach said the AD contacted him while on a recruiting trip.

"I found out about the allegation [in October 2015] because Gene Smith told me," Zach said. "He said I had to be on the next flight home."

It appears that Zach wasn't aware of the allegations filed with the Powell police until Gene Smith informed him.

I think it's safe to say that OSU knew about the allegations she filed with Powell police. But when it came to getting details, other than he wasn't charged/arrested, that wasn't forthcoming from Powell (and still isn't). And how do we not know that the reason OSU didn't press the matter further was because they saw that the Delaware prosecutor's office did investigate it and didn't file charges because of insufficient evidence? What were they to act on then?

But I believe they kept an eye on this guy. And when he gave them the opportunity, by recently violating that protection order, they fired him. Why now, and not in 2015? What were they the act on in 2015 when all there were were allegations, and they weren't getting cooperation from the police? They had nothing to stand on then, especially from a legal (contractual), standpoint. But now, He was actually charged with a criminal offense. Something tangible to act on.

To be honest - it would have been nice if Courtney, back in 2009 when she had the opportunity to file domestic violence charges against this guy (yet says she was persuaded not to) had pressed those charges. We wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

[Assembly Hall]

Anybody think that maybe some infidelity is involved? Or perhaps alcohol? I am just looking for straws.

[Hillsdale87]

Anybody think that maybe some infidelity is involved? Or perhaps alcohol? I am just looking for straws.

According to both his mom and her mom, he cheated on her 5 years ago, and she had some issues with alcohol.

[traderumor]

The curious side of me wonders what role Earle Bruce played in this.

He played the role of being dead so she could say things that he did which he is unable to defend.

This is going to end up with someone going from domestic abuse poster child to pariah with her own potential legal issues and poster child for why domestic abuse is difficult to get people to believe/listen when it is legitimate.

[bucksfan2]

I am going to add some more thoughts here. I understand that this guy is an OSU grad and also that he has written a few books about the team. I will not that while he has written "What It Means To Be A Buckeye" he has also written that same book about other college programs. Honestly if you get a gravy train like that, you continue down the path. Knowing the author is an important step. I would say knowing his status and knowing McMurphy's status play into both articles. But here goes

Very interesting. Thanks for posting. As I've said on many occasions, if she's lying here then she should be prosecuted. I'm afraid what we're looking at here is her side, his side and the truth. Let's be straight here and acknowledge that this author is an ardent Buckeye through and through, writing a book such as What It Means to be a Buckeye. He has a vested interest in clearing up OSU's image.

Issues I still have:

1) Her injuries. Don't tell me those injuries came by accident. He either caused them or they were self inflicted. I'm not buying that they came from him pushing her out of the way

2) Why did Zach Smith apologize for strangling her in texts she provided to McMurphy?

3) Why did OSU fire him if they knew she was nuts and he was innocent?

4) He was arrested in 2009 for assault on a pregnant woman. Did he really never assault her again after that? These sorts of things are generally a pattern and is repeated

Once again thanks for the contribution to this thread, Bucksfan. Every bit of reporting is part of the picture. I still find it hard to believe that this was all set up by the ex-wife but I can't rule it out either. A huge if but if this is all a set up by her then this will put women victims of abuse back yrs if not decades.

I read the FB article by Snook twice, once in skimming it and once while watching the Bengals play. I had said several pages ago that I found it odd that no one has gone and coorborated Courtney Smith's side of the story. In her interview with "Stadium" (where McMurphy is working once his contract with ESPN is up) she made mention of telling her/his parents, Earle, and everyone. She cast a very broad net of people who knew and people who failed to do anything. What I found odd, was there was never anything from McMurphy or Stadium verifying those claims. (I will not consider them one and the same because IMO they are working in conjunction.) It would have been very easily to contact Courtney's mom and ask her to verify her comments. When I started to think about things, that was shocking to me. You have this bombshell of a story, a story that could bury one of the all time coaches, and you run with it without checking each and every box.

1. Her injures are out there. In Zach's interview he said they were defensive. Zach's mom laid out a case as to what Courtney would do. Are all we have to go on the pictures McMurphy released? And the texts? I think we have to call into question the texts until we see a proper date stamp.
2. Mentioned above. Where is the date stamp, where is the entire context of the conversation?
3. An actual arrest. I have heard as described by Zach's mom that it was a set up, its unfortunate if true because she used the kids to get back at Zach.
4. Was there an actual arrest? But yea it appears as if something happened in 2009 and according to multiple sources the families rallied together. Urban and now Lynn Bruce have confirmed that.

A lot of what Snook has reported is easily checked to confirm for its accuracy. I think the first thing would be to confirm that Courtney's mom is in agreement with the article. You can find 911 records, find if Courtney was in Florida as described.

To answer Assembly's question, it is well documented that Zach had an affair, one that Lynn Bruce states started the downfall of the relationship. I have heard alcohol was involved, but I don't scour the web for OSU football message boards. I find football message boards to be a little rough.

[Sea Ray]

2. Mentioned above. Where is the date stamp, where is the entire context of the conversation?

The context of the conversation is quite clear. Punta Canta is mentioned by name. As for the date stamp, we won't know that unless investigators contact her. It's unfortunate OSU didn't contact her in 2015. If they had and she did not give them this yet it all of a sudden appears now, it would help the school's case. It opens up the question, what did they do to investigate this? If all they did was rely on the Powell Police then that will be considered as falling short by many, especially a police dept that's known to with hold their reports and change them after the fact.

I'm not so much interested in the exact date of these texts unless they're fabricated. If they're legit then it doesn't matter to me when they were sent. I'd like someone to ask Zach flat out if they're legit. So far he's given poor answers to similar questions such as "we had a volatile relationship..."

There are several sources reporting that there was an arrest in 2009:

Ohio State football coach Urban Meyer told reporters that he was aware of former receiver coach Zach Smith’s 2009 domestic violence arrest while Smith was working for Meyer as a grad assistant at Florida.

https://deadspin.com/urban-meyer-was...sti-1827843992

As for him being accused of violated a protection order now, how is that more egregious than the reason for the protection order to begin with? It would not have been granted unless Courtney proved her reasons to a judge.

[BuckeyeRed27]

You don’t know that the Powell PD is “known for withholding reports and changing them after the fact”. You have no idea what their policies are on this type of stuff and what they can and can’t do.

In Baylor’s investigation they were slammed for talking to victims as it was seen as interfering with an investigation. Now Ohio State is getting slammed (quite wrongly IMO) for letting the police do their work.

[bucksfan2]

The context of the conversation is quite clear. Punta Canta is mentioned by name. As for the date stamp, we won't know that unless investigators contact her. It's unfortunate OSU didn't contact her in 2015. If they had and she did not give them this yet it all of a sudden appears now, it would help the school's case. It opens up the question, what did they do to investigate this? If all they did was rely on the Powell Police then that will be considered as falling short by many, especially a police dept that's known to with hold their reports and change them after the fact.

I'm not so much interested in the exact date of these texts unless they're fabricated. If they're legit then it doesn't matter to me when they were sent. I'd like someone to ask Zach flat out if they're legit. So far he's given poor answers to similar questions such as "we had a volatile relationship..."

There are several sources reporting that there was an arrest in 2009:



https://deadspin.com/urban-meyer-was...sti-1827843992

As for him being accused of violated a protection order now, how is that more egregious than the reason for the protection order to begin with? It would not have been granted unless Courtney proved her reasons to a judge.

I don't know, I think if Courtney said what she said in her interview. Heck if she would bring up 2009 a judge is going to grant her a protection order.

FWIW OSU should absolutely not have talked to Courtney.

[Assembly Hall]

I don't trust domestic violence cases due to an incident that happened to my buddy quite a few years back. My friend had just gotten home from work and a heated argument then ensued. According to him he walked away from it and jumped in the shower. When he got out the police were in his home as his wife had called them. The police saw that her right cheek was all red and swollen. She told the police that he had hit her, he denied doing any such thing. But they had physical evidence and cuffed him and took him to jail. In Indiana it is not a bailable offense you have to go before the judge and then he will set bail. It was a Friday so he spent the week-end there. I was in touch with him the whole week-end so I was in the courtroom come Monday morning with $1,000 in cash. He went before the judge. He pleaded "not guilty" to get an attorney. Bond was set at $500. I paid that and our first stop was at a lawyer's office. He secured the services of him, told his story to him, and then said he wanted to file for a divorce. The attorney took that on as well. A week later, upon his lawyer's advice, he pleads "no contest" and seeing how he had no past criminal record a "pretrial diversion". My understanding of that do what the judge tells you to do and it will be expunged from your record. The judge demanded he go to the "Center for Non-violence". That involved 30 sessions at $60 a pop. Before he had completed the "course" the divorce became final. They sold the house, split the vehicles, she got custody of the 2 kids with child support set at $250 a week. Well he completes the course still pissed as hell about what had happened. Then rumors started coming out and all HIS friends were making him aware of them. Pretty soon HER friends started coming forward telling what his wife had told them. The first thing is she was having an affair. The second is the swollen, red cheek was created by slipping on the kitchen while mopping the floor drunk. It goes back to court....my friend got restitution from her for the classes and gas money. She also got in trouble to lying to a law enforcement. And my friend got custody of the kids. Justice was served but my friend went through a living hell.

[traderumor]

The context of the conversation is quite clear. Punta Canta is mentioned by name. As for the date stamp, we won't know that unless investigators contact her. It's unfortunate OSU didn't contact her in 2015. If they had and she did not give them this yet it all of a sudden appears now, it would help the school's case. It opens up the question, what did they do to investigate this? If all they did was rely on the Powell Police then that will be considered as falling short by many, especially a police dept that's known to with hold their reports and change them after the fact.

I'm not so much interested in the exact date of these texts unless they're fabricated. If they're legit then it doesn't matter to me when they were sent. I'd like someone to ask Zach flat out if they're legit. So far he's given poor answers to similar questions such as "we had a volatile relationship..."

There are several sources reporting that there was an arrest in 2009:



https://deadspin.com/urban-meyer-was...sti-1827843992


As for him being accused of violated a protection order now, how is that more egregious than the reason for the protection order to begin with? It would not have been granted unless Courtney proved her reasons to a judge.

It is not a reasonable expectation for employers to investigate at the level of law enforcement for things that did not happen while the employee was on the job. For those outside of their employment, they will rely on the legal process to provide that information. I'm not sure in what world organizations are running around conducting investigations that include calling in those outside of the organization for "testimony." Probably ones with resulting lawsuits.

[Hillsdale87]

McMurphy continues to edit his story without providing official updates. He just edited the story after the denial that Earle Bruce talked Courtney out of pressing charges, removing Earle’s name from the article. The story could be true, but McMurphy’s reporting has been shoddy, and continuing to edit the story is a bad look. As has been mentioned, this story would be getting hammered if it came from ESPN because of all of the errors in the original piece.

https://twitter.com/11w/status/1028006670901895168?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sea Ray]

You don’t know that the Powell PD is “known for withholding reports and changing them after the fact”. You have no idea what their policies are on this type of stuff and what they can and can’t do.

In Baylor’s investigation they were slammed for talking to victims as it was seen as interfering with an investigation. Now Ohio State is getting slammed (quite wrongly IMO) for letting the police do their work.

Throughout this thread it's been discussed that it's been extremely difficult to get the Powell police dept to release their reports on this case. It's also been well documented that they've changed their report at least once.

Both of these points are documented here:

Powell police had initially denied there was any record to release but later determined that the cover sheets on an Oct. 25 incident involving Courtney and Zach Smith were public record, and the department released them on July 24.

That record had a box to note whether the defendant had been arrested. It was unchecked. The record also listed offenses of domestic violence and felony assault as reasons for the report.But a report written the day after the 2015 incident and released to former ESPN journalist Brett McMurphy by a relative of Courtney Smith’s had mistakenly indicated an arrest.

Before releasing the official report last month, Powell Police Chief Gary Vest said that a police clerk told him about the earlier, incorrect report. He checked into the matter and, finding that Zach Smith had never been charged or arrested, unchecked the box. But the offenses also were different.

http://www.dispatch.com/news/2018080...correct-record

[BuckeyeRed27]

Throughout this thread it's been discussed that it's been extremely difficult to get the Powell police dept to release their reports on this case. It's also been well documented that they've changed their report at least once.

Both of these points are documented here:




http://www.dispatch.com/news/2018080...correct-record

You have no idea what their policies are or why they do what they do.

[GAC]

I don't trust domestic violence cases due to an incident that happened to my buddy quite a few years back. My friend had just gotten home from work and a heated argument then ensued. According to him he walked away from it and jumped in the shower. When he got out the police were in his home as his wife had called them. The police saw that her right cheek was all red and swollen. She told the police that he had hit her, he denied doing any such thing. But they had physical evidence and cuffed him and took him to jail. In Indiana it is not a bailable offense you have to go before the judge and then he will set bail. It was a Friday so he spent the week-end there. I was in touch with him the whole week-end so I was in the courtroom come Monday morning with $1,000 in cash. He went before the judge. He pleaded "not guilty" to get an attorney. Bond was set at $500. I paid that and our first stop was at a lawyer's office. He secured the services of him, told his story to him, and then said he wanted to file for a divorce. The attorney took that on as well. A week later, upon his lawyer's advice, he pleads "no contest" and seeing how he had no past criminal record a "pretrial diversion". My understanding of that do what the judge tells you to do and it will be expunged from your record. The judge demanded he go to the "Center for Non-violence". That involved 30 sessions at $60 a pop. Before he had completed the "course" the divorce became final. They sold the house, split the vehicles, she got custody of the 2 kids with child support set at $250 a week. Well he completes the course still pissed as hell about what had happened. Then rumors started coming out and all HIS friends were making him aware of them. Pretty soon HER friends started coming forward telling what his wife had told them. The first thing is she was having an affair. The second is the swollen, red cheek was created by slipping on the kitchen while mopping the floor drunk. It goes back to court....my friend got restitution from her for the classes and gas money. She also got in trouble to lying to a law enforcement. And my friend got custody of the kids. Justice was served but my friend went through a living hell.

I'm glad your friend got some justice out of it in the end, even though he had to go through hell. I think we could all possibly sight examples like this, though it probably isn't the case in a lot of domestic violence situations. They're messy affairs for sure, and I too don't trust the cases until you hear from both sides, and some sort of mediator is able to find out the facts, the truth in the matter. My brother had a similar situation, and the only good thing about it in the end is the women is finally out of his life. But not before she got her "pound of flesh" (sheer vindictiveness IMO) when he finally ended the relationship. It was discovered she had a prescription drug problem, and my brother found what I'd refer to as some inappropriate pic texts of other guys on her phone (LOL). To make a long story short - the relationship ended, our family was relieved, but several months later she decided to come over to his house and start a confrontation. He met her on the front porch, and argument ensued, and she attacked him. What do you do in that situation? He grabbed her wrists to keep her from hitting him, pushed her away, and went back in the house and locked the door. Next thing you know the police are at his house arresting him. It seems she went to the ER and reported that my brother attacked her. He got a lawyer, went to court - not sure of the exact wording of the charge, but it involved some sort of domestic violence - had to pay a fine as well as her medical bills, plus he has this on his record. Not right, but at least the woman is out of his life.

I think we'd all agree that women need to be protected, and for a long time the system didn't do that, it favored the man. And in their efforts to correct this societal wrong I think they let the pendulum swing too far in the other direction. And that's why you see examples like the above.

Now looking at the evidence we have so far on Zach Smith though ... two confirmed instances (2009, 2015) where police were involved ... I'd say Zach, unlike the examples above, is not a victim here (LOL).

[Assembly Hall]

SIAP, but I did not realize that Urban couldn't have any communication with players or staff. And that he can't be on campus property.