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Thread: Are these guys prospects?

  1. #1
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Are these guys prospects?

    We all can easily find lists of prospects all over the web, but the Reds, probably like every other organization, have some guys who still seem pretty young, put up pretty good stats and would seemingly be guys to be a little excited about, yet their names never really show up on any of the lists out there. I could probably make a long list, but I'll limit my questions to five guys. Hopefully the prospect gurus can chime in with whether or not they think these guys should be viewed as filler or real big league prospects with some reasons beyond the stats (or buried in the stats) why or why not.

    Ibandel Isabel - The kid is 23, playing in what is normally a pitchers league and has walloped 31 HR in 382 PAs this year. His slash line is .257/.332/.556/.888 in the FSL. I guess the fact that he has hit so well at that level and still not been promoted might say something about him. He's also K'd 139 times with just 33 walks. What's the opinion on him? Why hasn't he appeared on any prospect lists? Is it because he's not fast? I can't see why guys like Nick Longhi and Gavin Lavalley get a little love on these lists but we don't see anything about Isabel. Opinions please.

    Hendrik Clementina - A 21 year old with an .847 OPS at Dayton. I've read that he's a bit defensively challenged behind the plate, but guys who hit can find a role somewhere. Seems a better bet than some of the guys on the list today. Why or why not?

    Alejo Lopez - A 22 Year old Switch hitter who can play 2B, 3B and SS with a .786 OPS at Dayton. His overall minor league line is a .780 OPS in 762 PAs. He's a little challenged in the power department and not really a base stealer either, but a guy who hits from both sides of the plate, can play all over the IF, has strong K/BB ratios and seems to be able to get base hits would seem like somebody who should be on the radar. What's the deal with this guy?

    Randy Ventura - Just turned 21 in July and already 239 PAs in High A (with a .312 BA and .378 OBP). Hasn't shown much power, but has 43 steal in 563 A ball PAs, so apparently he can run a little. Seems like more than "just a guy" to me. Thoughts?

    Wennington Romero - Doesn't turn 21 until the end of January and has already made 48 starts in full season ball with 22 of those this season in High A. His ERA numbers haven't been eye popping and his K Rate has gone south this year, but he's about 3 years ahead of schedule and doesn't walk a lot of guys. I've seen plenty of pitchers who look a lot worse get plenty of praise on the prospect listings. What is keeping him off the list?

    There are more guys who I wonder about, but this seems like a good list to start with. Anyone who wants to chime in would be great. If anyone has other names, go ahead and add them to the list of questions. I'd like to hear some info on these types.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  4. #2
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Isabel is a prospect in the sense that you shouldn't write him off. He's got 80 power. He's also got 20 contact. He's not, and won't be on many prospect lists until he can get his strikeout rate anywhere near "bad" instead of where it's currently at, which is beyond terrible.

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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Clementina can hit. I think the question with Clementina is if he can control his weight. He's a big boy. I can't see that frame lasting long at catcher. He's not as big as Jumbo was....but he's that kind of body.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Clementina and Ventura most certainly are. Isabel is fringe, the Grand Canyon like split between Ks and walks is just nasty and damning.
    Ventura has great bat to ball skills and can swipe a bag when needed. I said in another thread I could see him having a Gregor Blanco type career. He played in a lot of big games with San Fran.
    Also mentioned Clementina, he has been a better hitter than Tyler Stephenson at a higher level, being the same age, just not the pedigree or defense.

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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alabama View Post
    Clementina and Ventura most certainly are. Isabel is fringe, the Grand Canyon like split between Ks and walks is just nasty and damning.
    Ventura has great bat to ball skills and can swipe a bag when needed. I said in another thread I could see him having a Gregor Blanco type career. He played in a lot of big games with San Fran.
    Also mentioned Clementina, he has been a better hitter than Tyler Stephenson at a higher level, being the same age, just not the pedigree or defense.
    Stephenson is at a higher level than Clementina isn’t he? Or is that what you meant?

  9. #6
    Member Kinsm's Avatar
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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Clementina is a future 1bman possibly a DH, definitely not the type of athletic body you want to see in a prospect - the extra weight slows down his swing. Reminds me of a worse version of Jesus Montero.

    Ibandel swings at everything - sometimes hammers the ball, a mix that doesn't make a good prospect. And he's probably a DH as he advances. Reminds me of a worse version of Pedro Alvarez and Chris Carter.

    Ventura is tiny and probably will never develop power. His arm strength isn't the best and though he has speed; it's not elite speed like BHam. Extremely young, so he has potential, but the body works against him. I think he'd do better to learn 2B.

    Lopez is another smaller guy, probably best suited as a 2bman - not quick enough reflex wise to play SS. Also likely won't develop power, but it's possible. Way behind on depth chart.

    Romero is another small guy who doesn't throw with high velocity but has a good changeup (the pitch most good prospects don't have yet), in all likelihood he'll get eaten up as he advances.

    I'd say they are closer to org filler than true prospects, but they have more upside than standard filler.

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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    In the order they are listed:

    Maybe
    Maybe
    No
    No
    No

  12. #8
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBruceFan View Post
    In the order they are listed:

    Maybe
    Maybe
    No
    No
    No
    Thanks for the long winded and informative reply.

    I mostly agree, but I think it brings the entire system into question. The Reds system is fairly highly ranked and it seems it's mostly because they are considered "deep" in potential big leaguers. Yet these guys seem to be better than a whole lot of others like Longhi, LaValley, etc who do get some prospect love. I guess if these guys aren't really prospects, I wonder how many of those other guys really are either and maybe the system isn't as deep as everyone seems to believe.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Thanks for the long winded and informative reply.

    I mostly agree, but I think it brings the entire system into question. The Reds system is fairly highly ranked and it seems it's mostly because they are considered "deep" in potential big leaguers. Yet these guys seem to be better than a whole lot of others like Longhi, LaValley, etc who do get some prospect love. I guess if these guys aren't really prospects, I wonder how many of those other guys really are either and maybe the system isn't as deep as everyone seems to believe.
    Sorry. lol

    I would say more but my position with the team doesn't allow to me comment in detail on certain things.

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    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Maybe Clementine can be the next Calvin Pickering. Thereís a guy I havenít thought of in a long time...
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

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  18. #11
    Moderator JaxRed's Avatar
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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Maybe Clementine can be the next Calvin Pickering. There’s a guy I haven’t thought of in a long time...
    He'd have some big pants to fill....
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

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    Member Old school 1983's Avatar
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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    He'd have some big pants to fill....
    Didn't they have to scour sporting good stores at the last second for his size?

  21. #13
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    Isabel has undisputed power but he has to gain better zone discipline and handle breaking stuff better. A+ pitchers can make him chase, that's not a god sign. Still, his power is in Stanton's category which makes him very intriguing.

    Clementina needs to be able to control his weight and shape but he can hit, has a good eye. Body makes his swing a bit slow so we'll have to see how he handles upper level pitching. Defensively, he still has room for improvement.

    The other 3 are limited by physical type...bucking the odds to succeed at the upper levels.
    99% of all numbers only tell 33% of the story so when looking at the numbers remember that numbers is plural...

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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    What about Brian O'Grady? He has passed the age to be considered a prospect. He was a senior sign out of the northeast where players tend to be a little delayed by weather. The highest level he reached in the RZ prospect poll was 'others'. Yet, the Reds saw fit to promote him to AAA where he is hitting well in the cleanup spot and is showing some pop. Is it just a case of small sample size or is he worth a 40 man roster spot this fall?

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    Re: Are these guys prospects?

    https://www.milb.com/milb/news/dayto...er/c-292320406

    "I haven't seen someone do what he's done at this level," Tortugas skipper Ricky Gutierrez said. "It's amazing what he's doing, and all the credit goes to him and hitting coach Alex Pelaez. They work really hard on a daily basis. Isabel is still a young kid and he's just starting to find himself. To me, he can only keep moving forward. The sky's the limit for this kid."
    "It's been a joy to watch," Gutierrez said. "He's a tremendous kid and he goes about the game the right way. He works very hard on all aspects of his game. He's a kid you pull for and want to see succeed. Everyone was jumping up and giving him high-fives and he had a big smile on his face. He's a great teammate and he gets along with everyone, so we're all happy for him."

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