I sold my electric car .....and bought another!!

[JaxRed]

I had quite the running thread about my first electric car the 2012 Nissan Leaf bought in December of 2011. A couple weeks ago we sprung for a new 2018 Leaf.

It took a long time for Nissan to come out with the second generation, and when they did it was almost a half measure. The first Leaf had styling only it's mother could love. Along the way while waiting for version 2, they changed the battery chemistry, doubled the charging speed at home and, then in 2017 added more range to take it from a 24Kwh battery to a 30 Kwh battery. Range went from 75 or so to 100 or so.

For 2018, the looks have really changed to make it look much more like a normal Nissan car. I find it very attractive



Mine is that color.

And they changed the battery to 40Kwh (150 miles). There is supposed to be a version that was 60Kwh (230 miles) that was going to come out in 2018 but it got slipped to "in the future"... so we bit the bullet and went for it.

They have really stepped it up for this car. Slightly bigger inside and out, it just has a real luxurious feel to it now. We bought the advanced technology package but this has some crazy tech on it.

Adaptive cruise control that will actually stop the car if the car in front of you stops. Automatic braking in emergencies (including to avoid hitting pedestrians), Pro-pilot assist that keeps you in the lanes when doing highway driving. Lane departure warning. Blind spot monitoring. The headlights dim automatically when a car approaches and then go back to bright when it is passed.

And one pedal driving. When switched on, you drive the car with only the "gas" pedal. Taking your off off the gas slows the car down with regenerative (motor) braking. The more you back off the gas, the more the car will slow. It comes to a complete stop. It doesn't take long before you get used it and don't have to touch the brakes. (now brakes will last forever!).

(While using pro-pilot assist, which can only be active with cruise control on, if you fail to respond to warnings to put your hands back on the wheel, the car will eventually slow to a stop, turn on the emergency flashers, and call 911)

So we've only hit the 700 mile point so far, but we love this car so far. The wife has let it be known this is HER car.

[WrongVerb]

Congrats on turning over the new Leaf.

[Sea Ray]

I had quite the running thread about my first electric car the 2012 Nissan Leaf bought in December of 2011. A couple weeks ago we sprung for a new 2018 Leaf.

It took a long time for Nissan to come out with the second generation, and when they did it was almost a half measure. The first Leaf had styling only it's mother could love. Along the way while waiting for version 2, they changed the battery chemistry, doubled the charging speed at home and, then in 2017 added more range to take it from a 24Kwh battery to a 30 Kwh battery. Range went from 75 or so to 100 or so.

For 2018, the looks have really changed to make it look much more like a normal Nissan car. I find it very attractive



Mine is that color.

And they changed the battery to 40Kwh (150 miles). There is supposed to be a version that was 60Kwh (230 miles) that was going to come out in 2018 but it got slipped to "in the future"... so we bit the bullet and went for it.

They have really stepped it up for this car. Slightly bigger inside and out, it just has a real luxurious feel to it now. We bought the advanced technology package but this has some crazy tech on it.

Adaptive cruise control that will actually stop the car if the car in front of you stops. Automatic braking in emergencies (including to avoid hitting pedestrians), Pro-pilot assist that keeps you in the lanes when doing highway driving. Lane departure warning. Blind spot monitoring. The headlights dim automatically when a car approaches and then go back to bright when it is passed.

And one pedal driving. When switched on, you drive the car with only the "gas" pedal. Taking your off off the gas slows the car down with regenerative (motor) braking. The more you back off the gas, the more the car will slow. It comes to a complete stop. It doesn't take long before you get used it and don't have to touch the brakes. (now brakes will last forever!).

(While using pro-pilot assist, which can only be active with cruise control on, if you fail to respond to warnings to put your hands back on the wheel, the car will eventually slow to a stop, turn on the emergency flashers, and call 911)

So we've only hit the 700 mile point so far, but we love this car so far. The wife has let it be known this is HER car.

Thanks for the update. How many miles did you have on your 2011 Leaf? Did you ever have a major expense with it? All these electronics sound great for you but I don't think I'd want to chance them as a used car buyer. Obviously it's an evolving technology and thanks to you we get to see how it's evolving

[Redsfaithful]

I'm still enjoying my 2015 Leaf.

I have had it paired with a Subaru Outback for longer trips, but I've now downgraded that to a Honda Element because we drive so little that I didn't need the money tied up in a car. And I feel better about abusing an old, used $9k Element with kids and golden retrievers vs. a nearly new Outback.

The Leaf is outstanding. I have a couple of very small nits to pick with it, but they are so tiny it's not even worth mentioning. I've never come close to running out of charge, and I've charged it all over the place. Here in Bexley by our city hall, at Whole Foods, at Easton Town Centre, on Ohio State's campus. I thought it would require a lot more foresight and planning than it has.

I have had it a year and haven't even had it in the shop yet, at all. Probably should take it in just to see where the brakes are, as far as life left.

I'll probably be looking at these 2018's when they come off their first leases (so 2021? I think?). It's cool to see how great they are. Adaptive cruise is wonderful.

[JaxRed]

Thanks for the update. How many miles did you have on your 2011 Leaf? Did you ever have a major expense with it? All these electronics sound great for you but I don't think I'd want to chance them as a used car buyer. Obviously it's an evolving technology and thanks to you we get to see how it's evolving

We put almost 88,000 miles on first Leaf and had one repair that cost $800, in almost 8 years. It was a great car. But we wanted the peace of mind that double the range got us.

[JaxRed]

I'm still enjoying my 2015 Leaf.

I have had it paired with a Subaru Outback for longer trips, but I've now downgraded that to a Honda Element because we drive so little that I didn't need the money tied up in a car. And I feel better about abusing an old, used $9k Element with kids and golden retrievers vs. a nearly new Outback.

The Leaf is outstanding. I have a couple of very small nits to pick with it, but they are so tiny it's not even worth mentioning. I've never come close to running out of charge, and I've charged it all over the place. Here in Bexley by our city hall, at Whole Foods, at Easton Town Centre, on Ohio State's campus. I thought it would require a lot more foresight and planning than it has.

I have had it a year and haven't even had it in the shop yet, at all. Probably should take it in just to see where the brakes are, as far as life left.

I'll probably be looking at these 2018's when they come off their first leases (so 2021? I think?). It's cool to see how great they are. Adaptive cruise is wonderful.

Our second car is a 2013 Prius V (the big Prius) and I'm very happy with it. Gets 47 MPG. At 50,000 miles. I'm 67 and already thinking on terms of "last cars". I'm about 95% sure the Pruis V replacement will be a plug-in Hybrid that goes "x" miles on electric before dropping back into gas mode. An example is the Chevy Volt. But I need something bigger.

If I crashed my Prius V and had to buy something like that now it would be the Kia Niro Plug-in Hybrid. 26 miles of electric and then 50 MPG after that.

[RedTeamGo!]

That’s great.

Edit: Snip

[OldRightHander]

I would like to spring for something like that, but I need an SUV for some of the courier work I do. I wonder how long until they get something like that in an electric, with a range closer to 500 miles so it could be used all day as a work vehicle.

[WrongVerb]

I would like to spring for something like that, but I need an SUV for some of the courier work I do. I wonder how long until they get something like that in an electric, with a range closer to 500 miles so it could be used all day as a work vehicle.

The Kia Niro gets about half the range you're looking for: https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/ve...t-cars/niro-ev

[JaxRed]

I would like to spring for something like that, but I need an SUV for some of the courier work I do. I wonder how long until they get something like that in an electric, with a range closer to 500 miles so it could be used all day as a work vehicle.

A too short answer is probably at least 3 years. I follow the electric car world pretty diligently. Here's where we are as I see it. In the US there's only 3 serious players right now.

Tesla - 100% electric and the the standard bearer right now. Models S (Sedan) and X (SUV) are pretty expensive. Like $75,000 and $100,000. The newer sedan, the lower cost Model 3, is still at least $50,000. Tesla is not yet producing the promised $35,000 version. All of the Model 3's being produced now are 310 mile versions. Once they start making the $35,000 miles version it will be about 200 miles. But that won't be produced until at least 2019 and by then the $7,500 tax credit will be gone (for Tesla).

Tesla has talked about producing a Model Y SUV, based off the Model 3. It would be 2019 as a minimum. No drawings or photos exist. I have a sneaky suspicion that is will be a very sedan-like SUV. But we'll see. They have talked also about building a pickup truck.

Nissan - It won't be long till Tesla passes them, but for now Nissan has sold more electric cars than anyone in the world with the Leaf. It's a 5 door hatchback. The current version gets 151 miles, but does not have a temperature management system for the battery. The + version which most people think will show up in CY 2019 will have a TMS and a range of about 230 miles. If you looked at a new Leaf and said "that might work", I might wait for the plus.

Chevy - Once reviled as the company that crushed all their electric cars, GM has the all electric Bolt. It's a mini-suv. It gets 238 miles of range. And it has a TMS.

If a 230 mile, moderately small vehicle would work for you, I think either the Bolt or the 2019 Leaf Plus would be excellent choices. (The Leaf is larger then the Bolt). But sometime in 2019 probably both Chevy and Nissan are going to lose the Federal Tax Credit too.

Here's the way the tax credit was set up: Each manufacturer gets credit on 200,000 US vehicles. Once they hit 200,000 they get the full credit for the next 2 quarters. For example, Tesla hit 200,000 about July 2nd. So Tesla gets the full credit on all vehicles sold until Dec 31st. So Tesla is maxing out US sales until then. (No overseas sales).

So why did I ignore Kia which makes the electric car WV mentioned? Because you can't buy it and probably can't for a long time. And it's why I said there are only 3 serious players. If I could buy the Kia, that's what I would have bought.

The state of California is one of the main drivers in the electric vehicle world. They have a California Air Resources Board (CARB) that sets up standards, and Cal, tax credits, etc. And they've set up a system that basically says, if you want to sell ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) vehicles in California, then you have to either sell a certain small percentage of electric vehicles in California, or buy ZEV (Zero Emission Vehicle) credits from a manufacturer that does.

So what most manufacturers do is make just enough electric vehicles to sell in California to keep them happy, and that is it. You can't buy them elsewhere. They are called CARB compliant vehicles. Kia makes an Electric Soul !! You can't buy it. Only in California. The Niro that WV mentioned is not in the US at all, but is expected to be sold only in California. (There are a few other states that use the same guidelines as California, and you can sometimes buy a CARB compliant car in those states). If you buy a CARB compliant vehicle and drive it to a non CARB state.... the dealers won't work on them.

Right now, an electric vehicle has some major plusses and major minuses. The range and refueling is the biggest minus. But it's a question of managing your "fleet" even if you are a family. If we were a one car family I would have hated my Leaf and sold it. But we were a 2 car family, with a 50 mile round trip daily commute. There was essentially never a day that a 75 miles range car didn't work for one of us. So range wasn't a problem and refueling wasn't a problem. It happened at night while we slept. So I loved my Leaf and bought another.

I don't know your courier service. How big the packages are, the distances you go, how many vehicles you have, etc. But if it's possible to arrange things so that one car/driver always gets the short routes, and small packages, a 238 mile Chevy Bolt would work for you right now. You can pick up a low mileage 2016 Leaf that gets about 110 miles range for about $13,000.

The thing about the electric car is that it can run practically maintenance free for long, long periods of time, and with "fuel" costs that are about half of a gas car.

[OldRightHander]

I don't know your courier service. How big the packages are, the distances you go, how many vehicles you have, etc. But if it's possible to arrange things so that one car/driver always gets the short routes, and small packages, a 238 mile Chevy Bolt would work for you right now. You can pick up a low mileage 2016 Leaf that gets about 110 miles range for about $13,000.

It’s not my service. Since I had to close down my trucking company, I’ve been doing courier work for a company out of Dayton and doing all manner of other things with the car just to keep the bills paid until my books start earning enough money to write full time. I don’t know how long that will take. I only have two books out now and will have a couple more published shortly. In a day I can sometimes only run 150-200 miles and other days I can log much more than that if I take trips to Columbus and what not. From what you’re saying, by the time they have something I could use, I might be writing full time and wouldn’t need something with that much range. That’s the plan at least.

[JaxRed]

It’s not my service. Since I had to close down my trucking company, I’ve been doing courier work for a company out of Dayton and doing all manner of other things with the car just to keep the bills paid until my books start earning enough money to write full time. I don’t know how long that will take. I only have two books out now and will have a couple more published shortly. In a day I can sometimes only run 150-200 miles and other days I can log much more than that if I take trips to Columbus and what not. From what you’re saying, by the time they have something I could use, I might be writing full time and wouldn’t need something with that much range. That’s the plan at least.

Yep, right now an electric car would not work for you.

[Redsfaithful]

How much did your battery degrade by the time you sold it Jax?

[JaxRed]

My first one was a 2012. Had the battery replaced under warranty.

Lost 1st bar at 21,200/18 months
2nd bar at 30,100/27 months
3rd bar at 38,750/35 months
4th bar at 48,444/45 months.

Got a Lizard battery. After 34 months and 39,222 miles I had not lost any bars yet.

It's one of the things that convinced me to go for the non-TMS 2018 Leaf.

[Sea Ray]

GM dropping the Chevy Volt:

https://electrek.co/2018/11/26/gm-ch...ric-investmet/