How the stolen photo story played out

[kaldaniels]

I wonder why the guy even offered to pay out of his own pocket.

I’m trying to piece together a scenario where I was that guy offering to pay the money rather than taking it up the chain to make sure the company paid.

[Larry Schuler]

I wonder why the guy even offered to pay out of his own pocket.

I’m trying to piece together a scenario where I was that guy offering to pay the money rather than taking it up the chain to make sure the company paid.

Defeated employee who was tasked with making it go away and given no support or resources.

[klw]

Doug is buying the drinks tonight:



Sprite all around!

[dougdirt]

I wonder why the guy even offered to pay out of his own pocket.

I’m trying to piece together a scenario where I was that guy offering to pay the money rather than taking it up the chain to make sure the company paid.

I've got a few theories on it, but they are all weird ones except for the "just want to make it right" side of things.

[bucksfan2]

Buckle up and get your reading glasses ready. If anyone actually makes it through this, you're awesome. If not, I understand. It's long, and probably very stupid to you. I get that.

I said that I would share this story on here once I got paid, and that eventually happened, so here we are.

This story actually starts out nearly 19 months ago. Baseball Prospectus used a photo of mine, without permission, in one of their articles online. I contacted their customer support and was put in touch with "the guy" who handles that kind of stuff for them. He apologized and the photo was taken down, but I requested to be compensated for it. Baseball Prospectus is a for profit enterprise and they charge money for access to their content, so I expect to be compensated for my contributions to their content. We set up a time a few days down the road for a phone call to discuss it. I missed the first call. I called back the next day and didn't get an answer. At the time I was busy and just decided, you know what, it's not worth the time and hassle right now. And I let it go. They removed the photo.... it was just something that wasn't worth dealing with at the time.

The bolded part is your first problem. In fact, I think its what led to this entire fiasco. You set up a time to have a phone call and then missed it?

Just my opinion, but when someone offers to "pay out of their own pocket" its done to appease you, they won't really be on the hook for the money.

It sounds like BP is a second gig for many people, including the attorney you finally got in contact with. Not excusing the actions, just think it does explain some things.

[dougdirt]

The bolded part is your first problem. In fact, I think its what led to this entire fiasco. You set up a time to have a phone call and then missed it?

Just my opinion, but when someone offers to "pay out of their own pocket" its done to appease you, they won't really be on the hook for the money.

It sounds like BP is a second gig for many people, including the attorney you finally got in contact with. Not excusing the actions, just think it does explain some things.

What led to the entire fiasco was them not doing the right thing.

[Larry Schuler]

What led to the entire fiasco was them not doing the right thing.

Haha. Yeah. That's a little gas lighting technique. "I am the way I am and behaved the way I did over a long period of time in several situations because you did XYZ once."

[TRF]

Haha. Yeah. That's a little gas lighting technique. "I am the way I am and behaved the way I did over a long period of time in several situations because you did XYZ once."

It really isn't. I manage a decently sized website. I have more than a rudimentary understanding of what doug went through and what BP did. Simply put, they figure no one will call them on what is frankly an insulting and shady practice. Insulting in that they think doug, and probably at least 30+ other bloggers for MLB systems will just ignore what was done. And for the most part, they are right. In doug's case, if I am not mistaken, this is his profession. By stealing his photo, and yes, they did steal his photo, they took the fruits of his labor. They KNEW it was wrong as when contacted about it, on two separate occasions, they removed the photos that were doug's intellectual property. It is insulting because while doug's site is something of a niche site, it is a competing site to BP. It's like Pepsi lifting footage from Coke for a commercial. In fact, it is exactly like that.

Which brings me to shady. No one does this! Or rather no one should do this. Did doug draw too firm a line in the sand? Possibly. He certainly won't be hitting BP up for a reference, or a job. I don't think it will affect him within the community of other baseball writers, and apparently BP's business model has recently weakened. Writers went unpaid for a few months late last year with the blame falling on "website redesign". Heh. It's a Wordpress site. And it's... ok. It's not a design that should have prevented anyone from receiving a check for work they did.

My unsolicited advice to doug is move on. If BP pulls this again, don't demand payment, just ask that the photo be removed. Make certain the photo is on your site only. Network a bit with sites that do similar niche work about MLB, and try to stay informed as to whether this has happened before to others and if it is still happening. And be consistent in pricing without undercutting yourself. IMO $65 is a little cheap. I'd post rates on your site for use of your property.

[Larry Schuler]

It really isn't. I manage a decently sized website. I have more than a rudimentary understanding of what doug went through and what BP did. Simply put, they figure no one will call them on what is frankly an insulting and shady practice. Insulting in that they think doug, and probably at least 30+ other bloggers for MLB systems will just ignore what was done. And for the most part, they are right. In doug's case, if I am not mistaken, this is his profession. By stealing his photo, and yes, they did steal his photo, they took the fruits of his labor. They KNEW it was wrong as when contacted about it, on two separate occasions, they removed the photos that were doug's intellectual property. It is insulting because while doug's site is something of a niche site, it is a competing site to BP. It's like Pepsi lifting footage from Coke for a commercial. In fact, it is exactly like that.

Which brings me to shady. No one does this! Or rather no one should do this. Did doug draw too firm a line in the sand? Possibly. He certainly won't be hitting BP up for a reference, or a job. I don't think it will affect him within the community of other baseball writers, and apparently BP's business model has recently weakened. Writers went unpaid for a few months late last year with the blame falling on "website redesign". Heh. It's a Wordpress site. And it's... ok. It's not a design that should have prevented anyone from receiving a check for work they did.

My unsolicited advice to doug is move on. If BP pulls this again, don't demand payment, just ask that the photo be removed. Make certain the photo is on your site only. Network a bit with sites that do similar niche work about MLB, and try to stay informed as to whether this has happened before to others and if it is still happening. And be consistent in pricing without undercutting yourself. IMO $65 is a little cheap. I'd post rates on your site for use of your property.

I was agreeing with Doug and saying that the gas lighting technique was the mindset that, since Doug missed a call which can be considered a mistake on his part, any/all further poor behavior on BP's behalf was caused by that mistake ("If you didn't want that stuff to happen, you shouldn't have missed that call"). I think that is a non-logical framing that removes BP's culpability for their own actions and diverts the blame on Doug. Sorry for not being clear.

[TRF]

Ah. I totally misread that. Sorry.

[dougdirt]

IMO $65 is a little cheap. I'd post rates on your site for use of your property.

My rates would certainly fluctuate depending on the usage. But, I also don't really want to sell my photos individually, unless the windfall is rather large (if someone is willing to pay 4-figures+ to run them in their campaign, let's chat). My photos are about my branding. They look professional. Because they kind of are. They aren't taken by some guy in the stands with a cell phone. While the photos aren't exactly what I'm selling on my site, it helps me sell what I'm selling. Lending that, to as you note, a direct competitor, is usually not a good idea.

[redsmetz]

I've had folks who are sales reps for companies that have paid me out pocket and then put it on their expense report. One of the first times was about a month after I went into business for myself. A sales rep needed to get some freight rates to his customer, but his rate department didn't come in until 3 o'clock. He had a meeting at 1 o'clock. He stopped by my office, I worked the rates up for him in and he handed me a ten (equivalent to $35.00 today). He just found some $10 lunch receipt and put it in his expenses.

Of course, this would assume that BP has some traditional business practices like an expense report.

[dougdirt]

I've had folks who are sales reps for companies that have paid me out pocket and then put it on their expense report. One of the first times was about a month after I went into business for myself. A sales rep needed to get some freight rates to his customer, but his rate department didn't come in until 3 o'clock. He had a meeting at 1 o'clock. He stopped by my office, I worked the rates up for him in and he handed me a ten (equivalent to $35.00 today). He just found some $10 lunch receipt and put it in his expenses.

Of course, this would assume that BP has some traditional business practices like an expense report.

I guess that could make some sense, but in your situation that was clearly a time-sensitive situation. This situation wasn't really all that time sensitive, and it also wasn't one where the person made the initial offer to pay me out of his pocket with even the slightest clue as to how much I was even asking for. The latter part is the one that gets me more than the former - though they both are still quite confusing.

[Cooper]

It's completely related to.time. They make more money per hour spent than it would cost to solve what they viewed as an opportunity cost issue. Every step made was probably within that framework. They through cash at the problem quickly, the lawyer blew you off because he more than anyone knows people don't miss phone calls over small financial matters.

It was worth your time to be able to teach your lesson. That's 65 divided by number of hrs spent. They viewed your lesson as not worth listening to when they heard the cost- that's a guess. They placated you. Your not wrong - the time and energy spent getting to speak your truth was worth it to you. I doubt they heard it.

[Roy Tucker]

I know the baseball blogging biz is not a lucrative one, but a threat from a lawyer has always worked wonders for me.