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Thread: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

  1. #16
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Probably worth mentioning how thin the pitching is. Greene's a premium prospect, but the arm health is a real concern. Santillan strikes me as having hit peak overrated. I'd be looking to deal him this winter. The other three pitchers listed seem like their stuff only is going to translate in the pen.

    What I'm driving at is the Reds don't have a lot of pitching in the majors, and they need to hit close to 1.000 to get help from their minors (and this is a crew from which I'd be pretty happy to hit .200). Maybe they'll load up on arms in the next draft, but there doesn't look to be much of a cavalry coming.
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  3. #17
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Probably worth mentioning how thin the pitching is. Greene's a premium prospect, but the arm health is a real concern. Santillan strikes me as having hit peak overrated. I'd be looking to deal him this winter. The other three pitchers listed seem like their stuff only is going to translate in the pen.

    What I'm driving at is the Reds don't have a lot of pitching in the majors, and they need to hit close to 1.000 to get help from their minors (and this is a crew from which I'd be pretty happy to hit .200). Maybe they'll load up on arms in the next draft, but there doesn't look to be much of a cavalry coming.
    Can someone explain to me why everyone is writing off Santillan?
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  5. #18
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Can someone explain to me why everyone is writing off Santillan?
    I’m guessing Bob Stevenson, Tyler Mahle, Amir Garrett and Sal Romano have something to do with it.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini

  6. #19
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I’m guessing Bob Stevenson, Tyler Mahle, Amir Garrett and Sal Romano have something to do with it.
    4 guys that have nothing to do with Santillan?

    Also, we are officially writing off Mahle?
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  8. #20
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    4 guys that have nothing to do with Santillan?

    Also, we are officially writing off Mahle?
    Are we also officially writing off Sal Romano and Amir Garrett?

    Romano has a 4.66 FIP in his first 232.2 IP of his career. As a guy that projected as a back end rotation piece, he isn't far off being that. Garrett projected to be a #3 starter at best, with some probability of being an above average back end rotation arm or a late inning reliever. He has battled some injuries and wild inconsistency, but other times he looks like a good multi-inning reliever, which is pretty useful in today's baseball.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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  10. #21
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    4 guys that have nothing to do with Santillan?

    Also, we are officially writing off Mahle?
    I’m not justifying the doubt, just explaining it. They all have failed to live up to expectations. It’s natural to then doubt the next guy who got similar hype.

    As for writing them off, no one is writing off Santillan. That’s just another example of your usual over the top strawmen you love to throw up here.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini

  11. #22
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I’m not justifying the doubt, just explaining it. They all have failed to live up to expectations. It’s natural to then doubt the next guy who got similar hype.

    As for writing them off, no one is writing off Santillan. That’s just another example of your usual over the top strawmen you love to throw up here.
    Yes, multiple folks on the ORG saying we should trade Santillan before it’s too late isn’t writing him off. Right.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  12. #23
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Yes, multiple folks on the ORG saying we should trade Santillan before it’s too late isn’t writing him off. Right.
    Writing him off would be saying he has no trade value. Wanting to trade him just means you think he’s overrated, which is what his critics are saying.
    “We’re going to get the pitching.” -Bob Castellini

  13. #24
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Writing him off would be saying he has no trade value. Wanting to trade him just means you think he’s overrated, which is what his critics are saying.
    Ok, let me rephrase then: why are people saying Santillan is overrated?

    I will not accept “because Sal Romano” as a reason.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

  14. #25
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Yes, multiple folks on the ORG saying we should trade Santillan before it’s too late isn’t writing him off. Right.
    The Reds *should* consider trading off a prospect or three to acquire a legitimate rotation asset this offseason. It may be wise to trade a guy whose hype is a tad hot right now, coming off a strong season.

    It's not like this system has seen a pitching pipeline create starters year after year. So while it's tempting to wait for the guy who may finally hit, the smart baseball move might be to trade these guys when they are at their peak value for something the big league team tangibly needs.

    That's all they are saying. I think every person on this board likes Santillan as a prospect to some degree.

  15. #26
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Can someone explain to me why everyone is writing off Santillan?
    I don't know about everyone. I think his chances of ever making much of a dent are low. If you dig into his peripherals, he's kind of blah. He had a good ERA in 15 starts in the FSL, which is par for the FSL. The Reds are supposedly shopping far and wide for pitchers. Santillan is exactly the type of iffy prospect at the peak of his buzz cycle I'd use to leverage a trade.
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  17. #27
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    I'm not writing off any of the young arms. Johnson's hiring gives me even more hope. He might even be able to get something out of Stephenson.

    I think many in RZ have had high expectations that rookie pitchers would make an immediate impact. The prevailing psychology is so negative that these young pitchers seem to be set aside quickly when it doesn't happen. I admit to believing they would be further along at the end of 2018. As painful as it is, it usually takes a few years if it happens at all.

  18. #28
    Middle Class Rut TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    I've never seen Santillan pitch. I have no idea what he throws, how hard he throws and how much said pitches move.

    I have seen Sal Romano pitch. Hard-ish thrower. Laser straight. If he could add some movement, he'd be very impressive.

    I don't think he can add movement.

    If Santillan compares similarly to Romano, then move him. If not, I look forward to seeing him pitch.
    "There was like a softness to it, a glow to it. I felt... I felt warm."

    -- Joseph Daniel Votto 7/10/2017

  19. #29
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I've never seen Santillan pitch. I have no idea what he throws, how hard he throws and how much said pitches move.

    I have seen Sal Romano pitch. Hard-ish thrower. Laser straight. If he could add some movement, he'd be very impressive.

    I don't think he can add movement.

    If Santillan compares similarly to Romano, then move him. If not, I look forward to seeing him pitch.
    I'm curious as to why you don't think he can add movement. Velocity I understand, but adding movement does not seem to be the same thing.

  20. #30
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    Re: Sickels' 2019 top 20 is out

    Quote Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT View Post
    I'm not writing off any of the young arms. Johnson's hiring gives me even more hope. He might even be able to get something out of Stephenson.
    As with everything, there's degrees with this. Not all young arms are created equal. I'm perfectly fine with having various arms who've struggled fight for spots or go back to AAA as depth options. Yet I'd cut Stephenson. He's out of options and he's been nowhere close to earning a spot. Some weeds you just have to pull.
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