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Thread: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

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    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    They shouldn't be ranked. This just isn't a very good team right now. I think Cal has a lot of good to very good players but no real stars that are going to put a team on their back and take them to wins. I agree with WV I doubt they beat UNC or UL. Kansas is still a ways away but they are unlikely to win that one too. They will make the NCAA's like last year, more than likely, but falter early on. Then we will see another exodus players like usual.
    I donít think this team makes the tournament unless they score a signature win in non conference play and win some games in the SEC that they shouldnít.

    They might improve by SEC play but I really believe after Saturday we are witnessing the end of the John Calipari era as we know it. Iíll post more later tonight when I have more time.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I don’t think this team makes the tournament unless they score a signature win in non conference play and win some games in the SEC that they shouldn’t.

    They might improve by SEC play but I really believe after Saturday we are witnessing the end of the John Calipari era as we know it. I’ll post more later tonight when I have more time.
    We go through this every yr. Due to Cal's one and dones he has to start from scratch every yr. They have enormous talent but it's raw. This means that they improve more than anyone from Nov to March. That'll be the case again this yr. They'll compete for the SEC title and will be a very tough out in the SEC tournament. They'll likely make the Sweet 16 at least in the NCAAs.

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    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    We go through this every yr. Due to Cal's one and dones he has to start from scratch every yr. They have enormous talent but it's raw. This means that they improve more than anyone from Nov to March. That'll be the case again this yr. They'll compete for the SEC title and will be a very tough out in the SEC tournament. They'll likely make the Sweet 16 at least in the NCAAs.
    Except thereís no starting from scratch this year. Three starters returning plus a grad transfer. They were pegged as a top three team and so far have been embarrassed by Duke and played inconsistent in non conference play.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    He would still be successful. He is a good coach. I think people who watch basketball regularly can see this. He pulls players together for a "team" better than anyone. He has a new cast every year and by the end end he has them play as a cohesive unit. Considering he is coaching a lot of kids who have been spoiled and have many others talking in their ear to them this is a tremendous accomplishment.
    A big thing to consider on how good a coach is is how how much their team improves by the end of the season. Every year save one at UK his team has improved and usually substantially.
    That's a fair argument. I may be oversimplifying but I've always felt like he's done such a good job recruiting offensive players(basically it's offensive ability that leads to a high player ranking) that he can "just" coach defense and toughness, and use that as the carrot and stick to force team to play hard. I think it's a risky strategy if you're not getting the best of the best recruits, but he's been successful at it.
    Also interesting to me what happens when a few players stay longer than originally projected and actually do become veterans in his system. It's my limited experience that his teams with a few "veteran disappointments" are usually among his best.

    I could be wrong though....
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Honest I can't say it any better than Hoosier Red did in his post, he sums it up basically perfectly.

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    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    That's a fair argument. I may be oversimplifying but I've always felt like he's done such a good job recruiting offensive players(basically it's offensive ability that leads to a high player ranking) that he can "just" coach defense and toughness, and use that as the carrot and stick to force team to play hard. I think it's a risky strategy if you're not getting the best of the best recruits, but he's been successful at it.
    Also interesting to me what happens when a few players stay longer than originally projected and actually do become veterans in his system. It's my limited experience that his teams with a few "veteran disappointments" are usually among his best.

    I could be wrong though....
    The championship team had Darius Miller as a carryover from the Billy the Clyde days. Doron Lamb and Terrence Jones came back for another season but that class had a once in a generation type of player.

    I posted earlier that I think this is the end of the Calipari era. I donít mean that as in Iím calling for his head, but I seriously wouldnít be surprised if he retires in 2-3 years.

    Calipari isnít getting the best of the best anymore and I donít think that is a fluke. Heís still getting good to great players, but not game changing recruits thatís the difference in a tournament team and a championship team.

    I think the 2015 team was the plateau. Yes, Cal won it in 2012 but winning 38 games in a row and ending in utter disappointment and heartbreak against Wisconsin (a game in which Cal played stallball and cost Kentucky a likely championship) is something that is unlikely to ever happen again with Kentucky, let alone all of college basketball.

    The ďplatoonĒ from that team really hurt Kentucky on the recruiting trail and led to a couple of truths UK fans donít want to admit:

    1. Players donít need Calipari to go to the NBA. Since Towns got drafted, Ben Simmons, Markelle Fultz, and DeAndre Ayton have been selected first overall. Ayton was the only one of those three to play in the NCAA Tournament and the other twos coaches were subsequently fired. Fultz is a likely bust, but Simmons will likely get a second contract.

    This isnít factoring in Duke, which has literally copied Kentucky in every way yet where Calipari is considered a villain who is ruining college basketball, Coach K is considered a ďtrailblazerĒ for utilizing one and done.

    Looking ahead, Duke will likely have this upcoming draft with either Barrett or Williamson going first, but Memphis will likely feature James Wiseman in a couple of years.

    Other players:
    Jaylen Brown (Cal)
    Dennis Smith Jr (NC State)
    Jonathan Isaac (Florida State)
    Michael Porter (Missouri)
    Mo Bamba (Texas)
    Collin Sexton (Alabama)
    Trae Young (Oklahoma)

    Moral of the story: You can go away from the pressure cooker that is Lexington, KY, still get all the media attention, and still get drafted.

    2. Cals NBA track record, while impressive, isnít without error. This is where the maturity of the kids in question and being over-recruited every year comes into play. Consider these players:

    Daniel Orton
    Doron Lamb
    Marquis Teague
    Andrew Harrison
    Aaron Harrison
    Dakari Johnson
    Skal Labissierre
    Tyler Ulis
    Isaiah Briscoe
    Jarred Vanderbilt
    Hami Diallo

    Think those players should have left when they did? Had Teague and Lamb stayed an extra year, that Kentucky team the following season likely made the tournament. Granted, it may have affected recruiting in other ways, but Iím sure this is the negativity used against Calipari on the recruiting trail.

    Thatís not considering transfers either, Kyle Wiltjer, Marcus Lee, Charles Matthews, and Sacha Killeya-Jones.

    Iím not saying all of this to knock Cal. What he did when coming to Kentucky is remarkable, but between Duke joining the one and done game and other schools scoring one and done talent, Kentucky is no longer the ďcool schoolĒ and itís showing in the players Cal has been getting and the teams being pieced together.

    I think Cal will retire on his own, likely in 2-4 years. If the NBA changes one and done I think he hangs it up. The way things are going, he isnít going to ever duplicate his past successes and the stress is starting to get to him. The picture taken by Erin Calipari after the Seton Hall game was pretty telling.
    Last edited by WVRed; 12-10-2018 at 09:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Moderator cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    WV I think you hit on the crux of it with Cal. The recruiting landscape has changed. The top level players know they can go just about anywhere and be the BMOC and still be drafted number one. You don't have to be a team player in Cal's system any longer and be the number one or two pick of the draft. It's actually been that way for the last three or four years.
    Also I think we are seeing burn out from Cal. He has said and done some things this season that he hasn't done before. He has admitted as to having over estimated this team and didn't work on the things he usually does early in the pre season. It showed badly against Duke. IMO they haven't looked well coached at all this season. Part of that has been a turn over in assistants. I think he misses Antiugua,Strickland and Slice. Especially on the recruiting trail. I have always said 10 years is max for a coach at UK. Cal is right at that mark and I think its beginning to show. Throw in the fact that Brad will graduate this year and I think you have all the makings of Cal leaving very soon. It really wouldn't surprise me after this season since he is missing on all of the top talent so far for 2020. I'm not calling for him to step down either. He has been perfect for UK and would be a great asset for many more years. But I think it has worn him down and it is showing in many different ways.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    If Cal does step down who does UK target?
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    If Cal does step down who does UK target?
    Hard to tell because weíre looking at the earliest next season when Brad graduates.

    If they continue what Cal has started Kenny Payne would be a possibility, but no head coaching experience would likely doom that. Calipari is like Urban Meyer in that there is no obvious successor somewhere else so the best options are somewhat unproven.

    Myself, Iíd like to look at someone else with a NBA background. Maybe Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens have been fired by then.

    My choice to succeed Cal would be Eric Musselman from Nevada. NBA pedigree, has landed All Americans to Reno, and is highly regarded. The only question is would he leave from out west.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by cumberlandreds View Post
    WV I think you hit on the crux of it with Cal. The recruiting landscape has changed. The top level players know they can go just about anywhere and be the BMOC and still be drafted number one. You don't have to be a team player in Cal's system any longer and be the number one or two pick of the draft. It's actually been that way for the last three or four years.
    Also I think we are seeing burn out from Cal. He has said and done some things this season that he hasn't done before. He has admitted as to having over estimated this team and didn't work on the things he usually does early in the pre season. It showed badly against Duke. IMO they haven't looked well coached at all this season. Part of that has been a turn over in assistants. I think he misses Antiugua,Strickland and Slice. Especially on the recruiting trail. I have always said 10 years is max for a coach at UK. Cal is right at that mark and I think its beginning to show. Throw in the fact that Brad will graduate this year and I think you have all the makings of Cal leaving very soon. It really wouldn't surprise me after this season since he is missing on all of the top talent so far for 2020. I'm not calling for him to step down either. He has been perfect for UK and would be a great asset for many more years. But I think it has worn him down and it is showing in many different ways.
    Of the three coaches, only Coach O had any meaningful impact.

    Slice was only there for one year, but he brought two of the more frustrating players of the Calipari era, Isaiah Briscoe and Hami Diallo.

    I think loyalty to this current staff is part of the problem. Joel Justus and Tony Barbee namely.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Hard to tell because we’re looking at the earliest next season when Brad graduates.

    If they continue what Cal has started Kenny Payne would be a possibility, but no head coaching experience would likely doom that. Calipari is like Urban Meyer in that there is no obvious successor somewhere else so the best options are somewhat unproven.

    Myself, I’d like to look at someone else with a NBA background. Maybe Billy Donovan or Brad Stevens have been fired by then.

    My choice to succeed Cal would be Eric Musselman from Nevada. NBA pedigree, has landed All Americans to Reno, and is highly regarded. The only question is would he leave from out west.
    Doesn't look like either Donovan or Stevens are gonna be fired anytime soon. I like the Musselman choice.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Doesn't look like either Donovan or Stevens are gonna be fired anytime soon. I like the Musselman choice.
    Weíre looking years down the road though. In the NBA, itís very possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    We’re looking years down the road though. In the NBA, it’s very possible.
    True, but I would assume another NBA team would be knocking on the door for both.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quade Green looking into midseason transfer. So much for being the next Tyler Ulis.

    This team has Team Turmoil written all over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Quade Green looking into midseason transfer. So much for being the next Tyler Ulis.

    This team has Team Turmoil written all over it.
    That is all over the IU board.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: Kentucky Wildcats Basketball 2018-2019 (The Sky is Falling)

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Quade Green looking into midseason transfer. So much for being the next Tyler Ulis.

    This team has Team Turmoil written all over it.
    He could never be the next Ulis anyway. No where near the talent Ulis has. There has been some signs that this team has problems. Cal has been very good over the years covering up and keeping quiet problems all teams have. He may have to go to greater lengths this year to keep the wolves at bay.
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